Pastors move to withhold/lessen SFC offerings in protest of NAYC

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Bro, I love ya, but I wouldn't touch that one with a ten foot pole.

My safest answer is that we live in an archaic feudal system mentality. We build our own little kingdoms and war against each other as if we are playing Risk.

By we I mean me as well. I am definitely a product of my environment and upbringing. The way I feel disturbs me to my core.

I admire your candor, even when you're "playing it safe."

And I also agree with Brother Hoover's statement above. We need to start looking at things from a bigger perspective. We are far too fearful and tend to pull our heads in like turtles whenever the vast scale of our mission looms over us. How about thinking along the lines of, "What would it take to see an entire denomination begin baptizing in Jesus name?" And then acting toward that goal.

Of course to change them so dramatically would require that we make some important changes as well.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I admire your candor, even when you're "playing it safe."

And I also agree with Brother Hoover's statement above. We need to start looking at things from a bigger perspective. We are far too fearful and tend to pull our heads in like turtles whenever the vast scale of our mission looms over us. How about thinking along the lines of, "What would it take to see an entire denomination begin baptizing in Jesus name?" And then acting toward that goal.
Of course to change them so dramatically would require that we make some important changes as well.

ding! ding! ding! And... we have a winner!!

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

ding! ding! ding! And... we have a winner!!

What about each one win one or more..........Maybe we should stress that Spiritual reproduction is to the Church as Motherhood is to mankind. Oh that we'd be like Hannah and beg and plead for offspring. I fear we've let the worlds view of birth control enter the Spiritual realm of the Church. We want the pleasure but not the responsibility.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

What about each one win one or more..........Maybe we should stress that Spiritual reproduction is to the Church as Motherhood is to mankind. Oh that we'd be like Hannah and beg and plead for offspring. I fear we've let the worlds view of birth control enter the Spiritual realm of the Church. We want the pleasure but not the responsibility.

I don't think anyone resists this plan. We are talking in addition to, and certainly not in lieu of personal impact.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

I don't think anyone resists this plan. We are talking in addition to, and certainly not in lieu of personal impact.

I would love to see......say.....the Southern Baptist come to a true new birth experience as a denomination....it is certainly in the realm of possibility with God....but it would happen much faster if every Pentecostal made it a point to try and truly disciple a Southern Baptist.......or which every Organization you choose from the RCC to the Elks Club......

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

I would love to see......say.....the Southern Baptist come to a true new birth experience as a denomination....it is certainly in the realm of possibility with God....but it would happen much faster if every Pentecostal made it a point to try and truly disciple a Southern Baptist.......or which every Organization you choose from the RCC to the Elks Club......

Not if we insist they "join our church" or they are "worshipping three gods" it won't!

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Not if we insist they "join our church" or they are "worshipping three gods" it won't!

We don't insist that anyone "join", you have to be "born again" into the Church.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I admire your candor, even when you're "playing it safe."

And I also agree with Brother Hoover's statement above. We need to start looking at things from a bigger perspective. We are far too fearful and tend to pull our heads in like turtles whenever the vast scale of our mission looms over us. How about thinking along the lines of, "What would it take to see an entire denomination begin baptizing in Jesus name?" And then acting toward that goal.

Of course to change them so dramatically would require that we make some important changes as well.

Let me tell you why that can't happen.

1. If any denomination approached us about accepting our doctrinal beliefs we would immediately demand they assimilate into our organization. After all, if they now believe like us they should submit to our Apostolic authority - right?

2. If an entire denomination converted we would immediately have men howling that "they need to come into uniformity" with our holiness standards. These same men would wail because we "allowed darkness to mingle with light."

3. We do not have men willing to disciple at the level necessary to truly make a difference in an entire denomination's direction. A pastor's entire identity is tied to how successful "his" church is.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Let me tell you why that can't happen.

1. If any denomination approached us about accepting our doctrinal beliefs we would immediately demand they assimilate into our organization. After all, if they now believe like us they should submit to our Apostolic authority - right?

2. If an entire denomination converted we would immediately have men howling that "they need to come into uniformity" with our holiness standards. These same men would wail because we "allowed darkness to mingle with light."

3. We do not have men willing to disciple at the level necessary to truly make a difference in an entire denomination's direction. We are too locally minded. A pastor's entire identity is tied to how successful "his" church is.

The "other Christians" accepting speaking in tongues and Baptism in Jesus name would do wonders for the UPC regardless of how much they agreed on other issues. It would force us to leave the milk bottle so many have as a steady diet.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

The "other Christians" accepting speaking in tongues and Baptism in Jesus name would do wonders for the UPC.

No, they wouldn't. That type of massive shift would destroy us.

Remember Ethiopia?

BTW, I am sorry I can't say it would be a great blessing and be peaches and cream. Truth is, it would create problems we may not be mature enough to handle.