Is the Father the Son?

Scott Hutchinson · #1 09-08-2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

I don't see it as a "non-sense" question. I see it as perfectly valid. Luke 1:35 teaches "that holy thing" which was born of Mary was "called the Son of God." If the Son of God is eternal, then so is Mary. Furthermore, if He is, in fact, God the Son, then Mary IS the "mother of God."

Brother Hutchinson, your question is valid.

Mary did not mother God, but Jesus Christ got his flesh from her.

Kansas Preacher · #2 09-08-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Mary did not mother God, but Jesus Christ got his flesh from her.

Exactly.

However, the "Son" was "made of a woman" (Galatians 4:4). If the Son is eternal, Mary has to be as well.

#3 09-08-2007, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

Exactly.

However, the "Son" was "made of a woman" (Galatians 4:4). If the Son is eternal, Mary has to be as well.

You didn't get this doctrine from Gal 4:4. If you read it in context, it clearly states the Son was sent forth...then He was born of a woman. the sending forth came first. Well, if you take the scripture a face value.

Kansas Preacher · #4 09-08-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Believer

You didn't get this doctrine from Gal 4:4. If you read it in context, it clearly states the Son was sent forth...then He was born of a woman. the sending forth came first. Well, if you take the scripture a face value.

If YOU "take the scripture at face value", then the Son was "MADE OF A WOMAN."

Kansas Preacher · #5 09-08-2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Believer

You didn't get this doctrine from Gal 4:4. If you read it in context, it clearly states the Son was sent forth...then He was born of a woman. the sending forth came first. Well, if you take the scripture a face value.

Look at the verse again, in its entirety.

"But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law" (Galatians 4:4).

You are saying the Son is eternal, but the Bible says He was "sent forth" WHEN THE FULLNESS OF THE TIME WAS COME. There seems to be a discrepancy with your interpretation and the ability to "take the scripture at face value."

#6 09-08-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

Look at the verse again, in its entirety.

"But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law" (Galatians 4:4).

You are saying the Son is eternal, but the Bible says He was "sent forth" WHEN THE FULLNESS OF THE TIME WAS COME. There seems to be a discrepancy with your interpretation and the ability to "take the scripture at face value."

He was sent forth, from the Father. The word sent forth means to "sent away." How many scripture say that Jesus was sent from the Father?

exapostellō; from G1537 and G649; to send forth or away: - send...away (1), sending forth (1), sent (3), sent...away (3), sent away (1), sent forth (3), sent...off (1).

Joh 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Where was the Son of man before his incarnation? From Jesus' on words, He was ascending to that place

Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Here Jesus states that He came down from heaven to do the Father's will.

So where was Jesus sent forth from...before he was born of a woman?

Kansas Preacher · #7 09-08-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Believer

He was sent forth, from the Father. The word sent forth means to "sent away." How many scripture say that Jesus was sent from the Father?

exapostellō; from G1537 and G649; to send forth or away: - send...away (1), sending forth (1), sent (3), sent...away (3), sent away (1), sent forth (3), sent...off (1).

Joh 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Where was the Son of man before his incarnation? From Jesus' on words, He was ascending to that place

Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Here Jesus states that He came down from heaven to do the Father's will.

So where was Jesus sent forth from...before he was born of a woman?

Since you refused to answer my question until I answered yours, I will do the same. I am still waiting on an answer. Please explain how you rectify an "eternal Son" being "eternally sent" with the phrase "WHEN THE FULLNESS OF THE TIME WAS COME."

Galatians 4:4 does not say, "God sent forth His son and THEN the Son was made of a woman." If you are basing your interpretation of this verse on the order of the phrases contained in it, then:

1. The fullness of the time came
2. God sent forth His Son
3. His Son was made of a woman.

This interpretation begs the question: When was the "fullness of the time"? Furthermore, I ask again, how do you reconcile that SPECIFIC reference to a POINT IN TIME to an "eternal Son?"

Kansas Preacher · #8 09-08-2007, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

Since you refused to answer my question until I answered yours, I will do the same. I am still waiting on an answer. Please explain how you rectify an "eternal Son" being "eternally sent" with the phrase "WHEN THE FULLNESS OF THE TIME WAS COME."

Galatians 4:4 does not say, "God sent forth His son and THEN the Son was made of a woman." If you are basing your interpretation of this verse on the order of the phrases contained in it, then:

1. The fullness of the time came
2. God sent forth His Son
3. His Son was made of a woman.

This interpretation begs the question: When was the "fullness of the time"? Furthermore, I ask again, how do you reconcile that SPECIFIC reference to a POINT IN TIME to an "eternal Son?"

I might also add that, according to Hebrews, there was a particular DAY in which the Son was "begotten" -- "Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee" (Hebrews 1:5).

#9 09-08-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

Since you refused to answer my question until I answered yours, I will do the same. I am still waiting on an answer. Please explain how you rectify an "eternal Son" being "eternally sent" with the phrase "WHEN THE FULLNESS OF THE TIME WAS COME."

Galatians 4:4 does not say, "God sent forth His son and THEN the Son was made of a woman." If you are basing your interpretation of this verse on the order of the phrases contained in it, then:

1. The fullness of the time came
2. God sent forth His Son
3. His Son was made of a woman.

This interpretation begs the question: When was the "fullness of the time"? Furthermore, I ask again, how do you reconcile that SPECIFIC reference to a POINT IN TIME to an "eternal Son?"

Define what you mean by "fullness of time has come" because to me its talking about the time God needed to send us a Savior. And sent forth, as I already posted means that He was sent away from somewhere.

NASEC: exapostellō; from G1537 and G649; to send forth or away: - send...away (1),

Strong's: From G1537 and G649; to send away forth, that is, (on a mission) to despatch,

The Son was sent forth, or sent away from a place...on a mission. How many scripture is needed to show that Jesus came down from heaven?

Joh 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Joh 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

Joh 13:3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come forth from God and was going back to God,

Pastor, please tell me what this is literally telling us? Is Jesus going back to God as the scripture states?