Pastors move to withhold/lessen SFC offerings in protest of NAYC

[Neck]

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

I've been away for a while - due to a new job and a major change in schedule - so I apologize if this has already been addressed.

Today I had some time to catch up with some friends of mine (licensed ministers) and am more than a little disappointed with what I've heard. I've asked more than one about it and they've all confirmed the same.

I'm sickened by this. Completely disgusted.

Apparently, in a manner of protesting the sinful '07 NAYC, several Pastors are either withholding or significantly lessening the amount of their SFC offerings this year.

If you're a Pastor who is thinking about doing this, would you mind explaining what in the world you feel this will accomplish? Please, by all means, state why you think you should punish the ministries and people that are supported by SFC simply because of your childish tantrum over what happened at NAYC this year. Help me understand why you feel Tupelo, Lighthouse Ranch, Home and Foreign Missionaries, Bible Quizzing and other District events should pay for what happened at NAYC.

This is as stupid as Democratic Senators/Representatives blocking or withholding funds from the troops because they don't support the war.

Doing this does nothing but hurt and possibly permanently injure the ministries or other people that SFC supports. You sure you want to be a part of that? You sure God would honor your tantrum and attitude of "well, I'll make them pay for what happened . . . "

How dare these men. If they follow through with their threats, they'll have to answer to God for their ridiculous selfishness and arrogance. I cannot imagine God approving of this kind of attitude and action.

Any Pastor here on AFF thinking about making this kind of a childish statement?

JMO Sick . . . just sick.

My words to your strong challenge would be.

The fastest way to cause change is to withhold money from an organization.

When a store or service provider gives you bad service.

The first thing you do is complain and if that goes without notice.

You stop going to or using the service.

Men behind the pulpit teach us to be concerned with where our dollars are going and to be conscience of our political leaders.

Then they shy behind the "Man of God" curtain to accomplish many of the same failures as the political machine.

We should use the same common sense towards even our local church and international leadership of our faith.

There is more to "render unto Caesar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's" than just giving money. Matt 22:21

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

My words to your strong challenge would be.

The fastest way to cause change is to withhold money from an organization.

When a store or service provider gives you bad service.

The first thing you do is complain and if that goes without notice.

You stop going to or using the service.

Men behind the pulpit teach us to be concerned with where our dollars are going and to be conscience of our political leaders.

Then they shy behind the "Man of God" curtain to accomplish many of the same failures as the political machine.

We should use the same common sense towards even our local church and international leadership of our faith.

There is more to "render unto Caesar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's" than just giving money. Matt 22:21

Are you saying that the saints should follow the lead of their pastors? If the saint doesn't like the preaching, withhold tithes and offerings? I agree that in most cases that would be the quickest path to change.

My real concern is this: There is an important discussion that we need to have about issues. We need that discussion to be open and free. We need these pastors to actually speak up publically with their concerns. They need to state their opinions and sign their names to those opinions. Then let the debate go on.

Instead the "conservative" branch of the UPC often refuses to come out in the open. They refuse to participate in the Oneness Symposiums, they refuse to share in an open discussion. When they have a resolution to present- they LIE - ban me if you will, but they LIED - and refuse to allow a full discussion of the issues.

What are the "conservatives" trying to hide here?

And I use the word "conservative" in quotes because this party is not really "conservative." They are as radical as Leninists.

Originally Posted by pelathais

Are you saying that the saints should follow the lead of their pastors? If the saint doesn't like the preaching, withhold tithes and offerings? I agree that in most cases that would be the quickest path to change.

My real concern is this: There is an important discussion that we need to have about issues. We need that discussion to be open and free. We need these pastors to actually speak up publically with their concerns. They need to state their opinions and sign their names to those opinions. Then let the debate go on.

Instead the "conservative" branch of the UPC often refuses to come out in the open. They refuse to participate in the Oneness Symposiums, they refuse to share in an open discussion. When they have a resolution to present- they LIE - ban me if you will, but they LIED - and refuse to allow a full discussion of the issues.

What are the "conservatives" trying to hide here?

And I use the word "conservative" in quotes because this party is not really "conservative." They are as radical as Leninists.

you know...

it sickens me more than the possibility of a split that "parties" exist...

how disgusting that we can't even get to 100 years old without proving that we are just like everyone else???

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

you know...

it sickens me more than the possibility of a split that "parties" exist...

how disgusting that we can't even get to 100 years old without proving that we are just like everyone else???

We should not get by one year without proving we're just like everyone else.

Originally Posted by mfblume

We should not get by one year without proving we're just like everyone else.

I meant all the denominations that came before us that perverted the truth... that is how they got to where they are now that we rip on them for...

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

My words to your strong challenge would be.

The fastest way to cause change is to withhold money from an organization.

When a store or service provider gives you bad service.

The first thing you do is complain and if that goes without notice.

You stop going to or using the service.

Men behind the pulpit teach us to be concerned with where our dollars are going and to be conscience of our political leaders.

Then they shy behind the "Man of God" curtain to accomplish many of the same failures as the political machine.

We should use the same common sense towards even our local church and international leadership of our faith.

There is more to "render unto Caesar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's" than just giving money. Matt 22:21

I think you folks still have not figured out that the tithe is the Lords, and he tells you were to take it to. It is not up to you to put it anywhere else. You do not have that option. Offerings YES, Tithe NO.

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I think you folks still have not figured out that the tithe is the Lords, and he tells you were to take it to. It is not up to you to put it anywhere else. You do not have that option. Offerings YES, Tithe NO.

but we aren't actually told where the tithe is suppose to go to...

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

but we aren't actually told where the tithe is suppose to go to...

Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it].

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it].

the offering bag being passed around on Sunday mornings is not a "storehouse"...

The Bible never tells us who exactly it should go to, especially not in the New Testament where the priesthood really doesn't exist anymore (other than the whole Body of Christ is the priesthood)

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I think you folks still have not figured out that the tithe is the Lords, and he tells you were to take it to. It is not up to you to put it anywhere else. You do not have that option. Offerings YES, Tithe NO.

So the tithe should go to WEC? Kind of like the pattern that the Mormons follow? The "storehouse" in Malachi was the storehouse ajacent to the Temple sanctuary. The tithe of Israel supported the centralized system of worship. If a Levite was ever found to be withholding a part of the tithe and not sending it along to HQ, he was in fact "robbing God."

We collect and allocate funds in a very de-centralized fashion. We have individual pastors who proclaim the local "shrine" or "high place" (the local church) to be the "House of God." We in fact practice the very system of de-centralized worship that the OT prophets so often railed against. I think that we should keep that in mind when telling people to bring the Lord's portion to any particular "storehouse."

But your points are well made.