I'm leaving the principles of the doctrine...!

RevBuddy · #1 09-13-2007, 10:59 AM

Mizpeh,

Achieving mature christianity...now that's a real subject!

But you use the wrong verb, "attaining." That won't happen...at least not in this life...pilgrims and strangers don't attain, we just pass through...

Striving for the perfection of Christ or reaching out to do His perfect will...yes, that's something we all can do. A successful Christian's life is one of striving and reaching...striving and reaching...in a sincere effort to accomplish the will and spirit of His commandments...first, in my life...I'll say that again, FIRST, in MY life...then to influence, (not demand, ridicule, deride or general stress out) others to follow a similar path in harmony with His Word.

The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Given this principle of prayer, why not manifest that same spirit in maturing your life for Christ or influencing others for Him? If effectual (purposeful) fervent prayer accomplishes (avails) significantly better results. Then why not focus our efforts on accomplishing the same results through SOUL-focused ministry.

I enjoy Bible teaching and through it I hope to influence the Church and beyond...not by my great knowledge, but through the effort of transforming difficult and complicated principles and truths into real-world, everyday words that will assist in maturing Christians and drawing others to Him.

mfblume · #2 09-13-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

Mizpeh,

Achieving mature christianity...now that's a real subject!

But you use the wrong verb, "attaining." That won't happen...at least not in this life...pilgrims and strangers don't attain, we just pass through...

[

We have to part ways on this one, bro. lol. I believe we CAN have it in this life. In fact, Spiritual Maturity is the entire purpose for this life.

revrandy · #3 09-13-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

[

We have to part ways on this one, bro. lol. I believe we CAN have it in this life. In fact, Spiritual Maturity is the entire purpose for this life.

I agree here...Spiritual Maturity is not perfection it is growing in the Spirit..

Perfection is something we will strive for and yet never attain... because humanity and perfection are less than perfect for each other..

mfblume · #4 09-13-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revrandy

I agree here...Spiritual Maturity is not perfection it is growing in the Spirit..

Perfection is something we will strive for and yet never attain... because humanity and perfection are less than perfect for each other..

But that is the reason we are taught to not walk after flesh (humanity) but after the Spirit. Paul was crucified with Christ. Yet Christ lived in Paul. And that gave way to Paul's great success.

SDG · #5 09-13-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

But that is the reason we are taught to not walk after flesh (humanity) but after the Spirit. Paul was crucified with Christ. Yet Christ lived in Paul. And that gave way to Paul's great success.

And as great as he was ... he had a thorn in his flesh.

revrandy · #6 09-13-2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

And as great as he was ... he had a thorn in his flesh.

This is what I absolutly love about scripture... it does not hide the "thorns"...

Romans 7:17-19 (King James Version)
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

mfblume · #7 09-13-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revrandy

This is what I absolutly love about scripture... it does not hide the "thorns"...

Romans 7:17-19 (King James Version)
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Notice that verse 25 shows the remedy!? " 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord." This is why I believe Paul was only speaking of HIS PAST FAILURES, which caused him to analyze the situation and learn what he wrote in chapter 6.

mfblume · #8 09-13-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

And as great as he was ... he had a thorn in his flesh.

That did not hinder him from walking after the Spirit, though. Brethren, walking after the Spirit allows one to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

THAT is spiritual maturity, or perfection. So long as one walks after the Spirit, one will not sin.

In fact, Dan, that episode of Paul's prayer regarding his thorn was all the more reason he was able to come to a place where he relied upon the Spirit. It was a thorn in his flesh. Paul learned that through weakness of his flesh he is strong in the Spirit. The Spirit of glory rests on those who suffer in the flesh for Christ. Hence, 2 Cor 4 taught that Paul carried about the dying of Jesus in his body so that he could manifest the life of Jesus in his ministry.

RevBuddy · #9 09-13-2007, 11:06 AM

Mfblume,

Oh well, it was good while it lasted...

...but I thought the subject was attaining a final level of spiritual maturity...I understand maturing in the Lord...that process should take place every day, but to attain the maturity of perfection, a final place of maturity here, I just don't think so...

revrandy · #10 09-13-2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

Mfblume,

Oh well, it was good while it lasted...

...but I thought the subject was attaining a final level of spiritual maturity...I understand maturing in the Lord...that process should take place every day, but to attain the maturity of perfection, a final place of maturity here, I just don't think so...

I think we are all saying the same thing... just in different ways...