Again, you assert, but you don't proof. You say there is no distinction between Biblical communism and the social communism developed by non bible believing humanists...are you serious? Can you prove that? Quote scriptures to prove Marx was right on biblically?
are you serious??? There is only one kind of socialism.. where everyone shares things and everyone has thier needs taken care of...
Marx talked about it (and is credited for "inventing the idea", even though obviously the early church used it long before he "thought it up"), and the early church did it...
Essentially no one else (outside of small communities like what Sis. Alvear described) has done it anywhere else in the world...
Communist regimes in countries like Russia and China are NOT socialist...
they'll be just as biased in other ways... The point is that greed is inherent in capitalism... If everyone didn't want to "keep up with the joneses" the whole economy would be in trouble...
that's not a point, that's just your assertion. All dictionaries are biased. All definitions are biased...but yours. That's rather convenient don't you think? Greed is inherit in the human nature, according to the bible.
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There was no analogy... you said it had to be done on a farm, not true...
I said it HAD to be done on a farm? No. I spoke of true communism and gave an example
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no... being a doctor is a class because doctors have money...
What does having money have to do with it? How is doctor a class?
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being a garbageman is a different class because garbagemen don't have money...
yes they DO have money. Where are you getting this stuff from lol. They don't have as much money, but how does that make it a social class?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Ummm... my point from the beginning of this thread is that socialistic theory has NOTHING to do with Christianity...
and why would anyone not want the socialistic society Marx envisioned??? Do you like having the poor and homeless and destitute around you??
and the only real understanding of communism and Christianity you can get from the Bible is that the early church used a form of socialism... which would mean its good...
Under a capitalistic system we have just as much wealth to HELP those poor and homeless and destitute. It's not the capitalism that is the problem. It's humanity.
Again, back to religion. As I said before when it comes to discussing a Christian perspective of communism we need to refer to scriptures, not Marx
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
are you serious??? There is only one kind of socialism.. where everyone shares things and everyone has thier needs taken care of...
Ever year of the True Scottsman fallacy?
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Marx talked about it (and is credited for "inventing the idea", even though obviously the early church used it long before he "thought it up"), and the early church did it...
Obviously? I don't know if it is that obvious. Am I supposed to just accept your say so? I tried to introduce religion and you said this was not about religion, now you want to say obviously the church was using Marxism long before he thought it up? See as I said, we need to look at the BIBLICAL communism from a BIBLICAL perspective, not quoting Marx
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Communist regimes in countries like Russia and China are NOT socialist...
Can you give an example of one?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
that's not a point, that's just your assertion. All dictionaries are biased. All definitions are biased...but yours. That's rather convenient don't you think? Greed is inherit in the human nature, according to the bible.
no, actually, inherent in what I said is that mine is just as biased as everyone else... the only different that is possible is that I could be more aware of my bias, but that doesn't mean my definition is less biased...
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What does having money have to do with it? How is doctor a class?
upper class vs. lower class
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yes they DO have money. Where are you getting this stuff from lol. They don't have as much money, but how does that make it a social class?
not as much as a doctor... and it was a bad example... lol
How's this... someone working full-time at McDonald's... In America they can't afford to make ends meet (likely even working 2 full-time jobs at fast food places), but in a socialist society that was actually functioning correctly they'd have all thier needs met still...
thus, no poverty, no poor, no destitute, no starvation... that was really what Marx was going for...
Under a capitalistic system we have just as much wealth to HELP those poor and homeless and destitute. It's not the capitalism that is the problem. It's humanity.
Again, back to religion. As I said before when it comes to discussing a Christian perspective of communism we need to refer to scriptures, not Marx
yes, and, really all socialism is is a capitalist society where everyoe agrees to share anything they get equally among everyone...
There are no scriptures that discuss an idea that doesn't appear for 1900 years... Unless you include the fact that the early church was the earliest socialist society in the world...
Obviously? I don't know if it is that obvious. Am I supposed to just accept your say so? I tried to introduce religion and you said this was not about religion, now you want to say obviously the church was using Marxism long before he thought it up? See as I said, we need to look at the BIBLICAL communism from a BIBLICAL perspective, not quoting Marx
they sold what they had, gave it to the church, and the church re-distributed it... that's, essentially, socialism...
if you think otherwise you really shouldn't participate in this conversation....
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Can you give an example of one?
a regime that actually is socialist? No, because no one has been able to do it on a national level... The only places it has ever been done is smaller communities inside of other economic infastructures (see Sis. Alvear's group and other similar groups)
This has what to do with what I said??? (nothing...)
socialism still had nothing to do with Marx's dislike for religion... you can remove all of his anti-religion stuff and his theory on socialism still stand just fine without them...
and Communism is "a cruel taskmaster" because they aren't really communistic, they are dictatorships...
if you remove Marx's views on religion and you still end up with a system the relies on the compliance of humanity. THIS is the distinct failure of communism and socialism. for these systems to work, all must buy in. Those that do not want to be a part either suffer the wrath of the "tyrrany of the majority" or they must forsake all and leave. Both choices are bad ones.
Any good one may find in a counterfit system, does not belong to the counterfit. Rather, it belongs to the valid system it seeks to replace.
We dont speak of the benifits of a counterfit One Hundred Dollar Bill. "Look how green it is!"
We recognize that reguardless of how exact it may LOOK/FEEL it still has NO VALUE.
I guess, for your next trick you are going to tell us how Socialism has worked in France? LOL!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I think we need to distinguish biblical communism from social humanistic communism, which seeks to take your private property and make it everyone elses. The main problem with that is it never worked anywhere...someone always was in control and as a result had more power and had his or her own property contrary to the goal
Prax, there is no such thing as biblical communism!
There is CHRISTIANITY and the Judeo-Christain ethic. These are rules to live by. this is the law that is written on our hearts as the children of God. This is not some form of communism any more than worship of Allah is an acceptable form of christianity!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
if you remove Marx's views on religion and you still end up with a system the relies on the compliance of humanity. THIS is the distinct failure of communism and socialism. for these systems to work, all must buy in. Those that do not want to be a part either suffer the wrath of the "tyrrany of the majority" or they must forsake all and leave. Both choices are bad ones.
Any good one may find in a counterfit system, does not belong to the counterfit. Rather, it belongs to the valid system it seeks to replace.
We dont speak of the benifits of a counterfit One Hundred Dollar Bill. "Look how green it is!"
We recognize that reguardless of how exact it may LOOK/FEEL it still has NO VALUE.
I guess, for your next trick you are going to tell us how Socialism has worked in France? LOL!
yes, an economic system that humans govern is based on humans...
REally, if you cut the stuff that has to do with God out of the Constitution/Declaration of Independance (and there isn't much there), you have a fully operational system...
If anything Democracy is TEN TIMES more humanistic than socialism...
and France is not socialistic, they have a few aspects of socialism... You can't do something as massive as socialism half-way... and either way, there is no garuntee that, outside of the dreams of men who want a better world, it would actually work in reality... Humanity is evil, so they aren't going to share... (and I garuntee you France's issues with thier socialistic aspects has more to do with corruption by those who run it than socialism itself)
if socialism were so evil, the early church wouldn't have incorporated a system similar to it, and Sis. Alvear wouldn't be involved in a socialist camp where she is at...
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