The Persecution of Women in the Church

Originally Posted by Felicity

The initial post of this thread is what caught my attention and why I decided to respond.

I would like to know how women are being "persecuted" in the church today as I know it, have lived it, have experienced it and have pastored it --- "it" referring to the church.

Because a woman has been told she can't wear red or a hair bow or jewelry or makeup ..... this is supposed to constitute "persecution"? What a laugh!!

I know women and men today who are being persecuted for their faith in real terms. They're thrown into jails and prisons, suffer beatings, repeated raping, starvation and even death because of their faith. This is what I think of when I think of "persecution". I certainly never considered my pastor teaching me that I shouldn't cut my hair or wear shorts or pants as "persecution". I wouldn't consider the fact that woman isn't accepted for "ordination" as persecution either.

The fact is ....... God has set certain things in order. One of those things is order in regards to headship, and it was God Himself who established in the very beginning that the order is ....

God

Man

Woman

I didn't set it up. Neither did Adam. God did. And the principles of headship and order are seen throughout scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

Does this mean that women can't lead? No. Because we see example in scripture of women leading but always under God and under man.

I have no problem overall with male authority. I prefer male leadership. Does every man lead perfectly? No. Are there men who take advantage? Definitely. Are there poor male role models and is there poor male leadership? Absolutely.

But this was God's plan from the beginning - male authority and headship. Just because men violate their role and take advantage doesn't negate God's commands or His plan. We need to stick with the principles that have been established in God's Word when it comes to this issue and all others too, of course.

And in my own personal experience overall, the male leadership I've had in my own life personally -- and in the church too -- has been positive, affirming, encouraging, assuring and as God mandated it to be.

First of all the original thread said nothing about your personal experiences. "As you know it" is not relevant to the discussion. To be Christlike, we must be empathetic and respond to need even if that pain is not part of our personal experiences. And "it" isn't referring to the first UPC.

As the body of Christ we are to help those who cannot help themselves. To do that we must be whole.

With regard to the "red bow" or "split skirts", any suggestion by any man to a woman regarding her clothing other than by her husband is crossing her boundaries. A man has no right to tell another woman what to wear. Even if its a pastor; if a woman is wearing something offensive or revealing, the pastor should speak to her husband first alone, so as not to offend or embarrass her.

She should not be made a specticle of publically or privately!!!

Too many pastors, husbands, fathers, etc. have been emotional vampires sucking the emotional health away from their wives, daughters, congregants, etc. so they can feel good about themselves and their minsitries. This is a sin and constitutes emotional and spiritual abuse.

I'm glad you have been excluded from this, but this does not negate your responsibility to make sure it doesnt' happen to anyone.

He that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

A healthy church is a church that regards women equal with men and protects all alike including children.

With regard to male authority, we are to love our wives as Christ loves the church. That means dying to her and giving our lives for her. Placing her first in all things.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

First of all the original thread said nothing about your personal experiences. "As you know it" is not relevant to the discussion. To be Christlike, we must be empathetic and respond to need even if that pain is not part of our personal experiences. And "it" isn't referring to the first UPC.

Understood. We all reply to initial posts with our own thoughts and responses. Mine was what it was. Others are what they are.

I understand people go through hard things.

Discussion is about sharing of ideas and opinions on a particular topic. We all do that. And we all do in in individual ways. Do you dictate what is relevant to a discussion? I don't think so. What you feel is relevant, I may not. What I feel is relevant you may not.

Originally Posted by Felicity

Understood. We all reply to initial posts with our own thoughts and responses. Mine was what it was. Others are what they are.

I understand people go through hard things.

Discussion is about sharing of ideas and opinions on a particular topic. We all do that. And we all do in in individual ways. Do you dictate what is relevant to a discussion? I don't think so. What you feel is relevant, I may not. What I feel is relevant you may not.

fair enough, I was asked to respond. The bigger picture is about the abuse of women and what can the church do to help those women.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

fair enough, I was asked to respond. The bigger picture is about the abuse of women and what can the church do to help those women.

And I appreciate your response.

Thank you.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

fair enough, I was asked to respond. The bigger picture is about the abuse of women and what can the church do to help those women.

Really? Because your first post really seemed to be more about what the church has done and is still doing to ABUSE women.

In fact, there isn't any reference at all in your post to the church "helping" abused women. Its all about women being persecuted by the church.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Really? Because your first post really seemed to be more about what the church has done and is still doing to ABUSE women.

In fact, there isn't any reference at all in your post to the church "helping" abused women. Its all about women being persecuted by the church.

Again Miss. Why are you so defensive. The purpose of this whole forum should be to help. Spiritually speaking if we have the H.G. and there is a Satanic attack against women, don't you think we should help> Please.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

Again Miss. Why are you so defensive. The purpose of this whole forum should be to help. Spiritually speaking if we have the H.G. and there is a Satanic attack against women, don't you think we should help> Please.

Perhaps because this isn't the first time this conversation has come up, and from some posters, its the same ol' same ol'. Blech.

It is in Satan's best interest to attack ALL Christians, not just women. Do you really believe that Satan is only attacking women? In our church right now we have two men fighting cancer, several working multiple jobs to support their families, men who have lost children...men who struggle with all kinds of things in their lives.

How arrogant would I have to be, as a woman, to say that they are not engaged in spiritual warfare on a daily basis?

I just don't like this thread. *Note The Big Scowl On My Face*

[SDG]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Perhaps because this isn't the first time this conversation has come up, and from some posters, its the same ol' same ol'. Blech.

I don't think we've approached it from a macro historical view as proposed by CH ... beginning w/ the Church fathers ....

Again the thread took a turn when the patrolmen "smelled a rat" in their opinions

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Perhaps because this isn't the first time this conversation has come up, and from some posters, its the same ol' same ol'. Blech.

It is in Satan's best interest to attack ALL Christians, not just women. Do you really believe that Satan is only attacking women? In our church right now we have two men fighting cancer, several working multiple jobs to support their families, men who have lost children...men who struggle with all kinds of things in their lives.

How arrogant would I have to be, as a woman, to say that they are not engaged in spiritual warfare on a daily basis?

I just don't like this thread. *Note The Big Scowl On My Face*

I can feel your disdain across the wireless internet, but the issue isn't against our local arena, I was trying to discuss a much broader picture, women in general are still being abused and persecuted across the world today. Just turn on the news. Sorry, you didn't like it. Didn't mean to offend you.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

Again Miss. Why are you so defensive. The purpose of this whole forum should be to help. Spiritually speaking if we have the H.G. and there is a Satanic attack against women, don't you think we should help> Please.

The main attack I saw was the one launched against the church.