The Persecution of Women in the Church

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I don't know a whole lot but isn't Gloria Steinheim sort of the founder of the modern feminist movement ? Doesn't feminism go agains't Biblical principals ?

There are different types of feminism. There is the mild type like equal pay for equal wok, allowing women to vote and such like. Then there is the radical feminism that no Christian can readily agree with espousing abortion and the domination of women.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by ILG

There are different types of feminism. There is the mild type like equal pay for equal wok, allowing women to vote and such like. Then there is the radical feminism that no Christian can readily agree with espousing abortion and the domination of women.

Thank you as I didn't know there were different schools of thought on the subject ?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Thank you as I didn't know there were different schools of thought on the subject ?

Yes, sociologists break it down into three different types.

1. Liberal Feminism which contains reproductive freedom (this might mean birth control all the way to abortion), shared responsibilities for men and women in child rearing, maternity leave. LF's support the family as a social institution but believe that families must support the ambitions of both men and women. LB's do not believe women need to march toward any single political goal.

I think most Christians who want any equal rights for women at all fit into this category minus abortion rights.

2. Socialist Feminism believes that capitolism and patriarchy oppresses women. They believe the family must be transformed. They want to transfer the economy into a state-centered system by ending "domestic slavery".

3. Radical Feminism thinks that the root of sexual oppression lies in gender iteself. They want to separate women's bodies from the process of childrearing and want the entire family system to be left behind. Parenting would be the responsibility of society as a whole rather than on individuals. Children's rights are important to this structure. Norms that favor heterosexuality over homosexuality and demands that sex take place only within marriage must be abolished.

As you can see, radical feminism has made a lot of inroads into our society. I think most Christians are very opposed to radical feminism, but most Christians are for liberal feminism as long as abortion is not included.

I got these definitions from Sociology 5th edition by John J. Macionis

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by ILG

Yes, sociologists break it down into three different types.

1. Liberal Feminism which contains reproductive freedom (this might mean birth control all the way to abortion), shared responsibilities for men and women in child rearing, maternity leave. LF's support the family as a social institution but believe that families must support the ambitions of both men and women. LB's do not believe women need to march toward any single political goal.

I think most Christians who want any equal rights for women at all fit into this category minus abortion rights.

2. Socialist Feminism believes that capitolism and patriarchy oppresses women. They believe the family must be transformed. They want to transfer the economy into a state-centered system by ending "domestic slavery".

3. Radical Feminism thinks that the root of sexual oppression lies in gender iteself. They want to separate women's bodies from the process of childrearing and want the entire family system to be left behind. Parenting would be the responsibility of society as a whole rather than on individuals. Children's rights are important to this structure. Norms that favor heterosexuality over homosexuality and demands that sex take place only within marriage must be abolished.

As you can see, radical feminism has made a lot of inroads into our society. I think most Christians are very opposed to radical feminism, but most Christians are for liberal feminism as long as abortion is not included.

I got these definitions from Sociology 5th edition by John J. Macionis

I am against all 3.

[Rachel]

What's the issue with Liberal Feminism Ferd?

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Rachel

What's the issue with Liberal Feminism Ferd?

I already cleared that up. feminism in all its forms seeks to erase the distinction between men and women. period. I dont need to go any further than that to know that feminism is wrong.


that does not mean that I like wrong headed ideas. it does not mean i support concepts or practices that are demeaning to women.

I just dont see a need to ally myself with those that seek to un-do the order God placed in His creation.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I am against all 3.

1. Liberal Feminism which contains reproductive freedom (this might mean birth control all the way to abortion), shared responsibilities for men and women in child rearing, maternity leave. LF's support the family as a social institution but believe that families must support the ambitions of both men and women. LB's do not believe women need to march toward any single political goal.

I think most Christians who want any equal rights for women at all fit into this category minus abortion rights.

So, you are against birth control? You are against men helping with child rearing? You are against maternity leave? You are opposed to the family as a social institution? You believe that families should only support the amibtions of men? You believe that women should march toward a single political goal? What exactly are you against in this??

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by ILG

So, you are against birth control? You are against men helping with child rearing? You are against maternity leave? You are opposed to the family as a social institution? You believe that families should only support the amibtions of men? You believe that women should march toward a single political goal? What exactly are you against in this??

I am against all forms of feminism because regardless of what color of lipstick you put on that pig, it is still a pig.

I believe that the bible and good Christian character are our guides. Period. And we don’t have to join forces with that lot of God hating; disorder loving crusaders who make claims about “equality” when what they really want is a wedge to use for their own benefit.

I think every person regardless of what they look like or what sex they are should be valued for who they are and the work they do. Period. That isn’t a feminist idea it is a good idea. That includes, respect, pay, and what ever else measure you want to use.

I think men and women who make the decision to have a baby had best be in it together 100%. That isn’t a feminist ideal it is good since. But feminism seeks to undo the order that God has set in place. There is no such thing as a man and woman being equal in raising kids. Equal to a feminist means both parents doing the same things, having the same input and the kid gaining the same value from each parent. Each parent in that system is interchangeable. That is a false notion. My wife and I each put 100% into our little boy. That is because this is the job GOD has entrusted us with! That isn’t a feminist ideal. There is a reason, Levi cries for mommy when he is hurt and cries for daddy when he is scared. We bring DIFFERENT things to his life. Both are equally important, but that isn’t what feminism says.

So I emphatically reject all forms of feminism. That doesn’t mean I reject the notion that Men and Women are valuable and deserve to be treated with the same respect.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I am against all forms of feminism because regardless of what color of lipstick you put on that pig, it is still a pig.

I think men and women who make the decision to have a baby had best be in it together 100%. That isn’t a feminist ideal it is good since. But feminism seeks to undo the order that God has set in place. There is no such thing as a man and woman being equal in raising kids. Equal to a feminist means both parents doing the same things, having the same input and the kid gaining the same value from each parent. Each parent in that system is interchangeable. That is a false notion. My wife and I each put 100% into our little boy. That is because this is the job GOD has entrusted us with! That isn’t a feminist ideal. There is a reason, Levi cries for mommy when he is hurt and cries for daddy when he is scared. We bring DIFFERENT things to his life. Both are equally important, but that isn’t what feminism says.

So I emphatically reject all forms of feminism. That doesn’t mean I reject the notion that Men and Women are valuable and deserve to be treated with the same respect.

I don't think you are against all form sof feminism. You are against what you define as feminism.

[LadyRev]

Originally Posted by ILG

There are different types of feminism. There is the mild type like equal pay for equal wok, allowing women to vote and such like. Then there is the radical feminism that no Christian can readily agree with espousing abortion and the domination of women.

Radical feminism is downright scary. I believe they'd like to make men extinct and support cloning!