Do you hafta go through the pastor?

[Coonskinner]

Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
Act 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
Act 13:11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.


This is an application of spiritual authority toward an antagonist of the Gospel.

The example in I Corinthians is an example of spiritual authority in the case of an erring brother.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by tbpew

and tossing the word authority around without identifying is application (realm where its in effect) and what and who is subject to it, is leaving out 50% of the entire necessary aspects of the word use.

The word "obey" is not that complicated.

You don't need a dictionary, a PhD, and a Mensa membership to know what it means.

You are overcomplicating a very simple passage.

[Felicity]

Haven't had time to read through this thread but I'm sure I agree with Coonskinner. Whatever he said!

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Haven't had time to read through this thread but I'm sure I agree with Coonskinner. Whatever he said!

Alas, I can't stay and tussle...I am meeting some of the adolescent constituents of the God-themed Man Club I am the Master of for a softball game.

I think I will exercise my draconian authority and declare myself the pitcher.

[tbpew]

CS shared:

It seems reasonable to assume that Paul or the elders in Corinth did "deliver such a one unto Satan." Why would he throw around such words if he didn't intend for it to happen?

As for me rebuking you in Jesus Name--that is at best a red herring, because there is no Scriptural precedent for rebuking a fellow Believer in that Name.

The Name is used to rebuke spirits.

one man's red herring is another man's object lesson.
The name is our authority in all matters pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
The body of Christ is a reality in the Kingdom of God.

Yes. We have authority to rebuke spirits NOT men. Because it is spirits that are SUBJECT to the authority NOT men.

So, what actions within the BODY of Christ illustrates any member being subject to any other member's dominion/authority?. Come on now... that is the scene where we see authority is in operation. Cast out devils, they bolt because of authority in operation.

If you want to pick the time when the doors open....have at it.
If you want to pick the color of the carpet...you may well have that authority in the building you open for assembling.

So CS, again what did Paul do to turn the guy over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh? Something SO SOBER, and the scripture is silent? I don't think so, I think he would have marked them the cause division...as a guide... instructing that fellowship not be enjoined with fornicators. Choice now moves to me, the hearer. If authority of God is at work...NO CHOICE!

.....
you shared an anecdote about your pastor....
in your years of ministry have you turned anyone over to Satan?
Has there been fornicators in your ministry that wiped their mouths and said we have done no wrong?

What was the outcome of their transformation with destroyed flesh?

We have authority over spiritual strongholds. Lets use it where we have it and forget about where we do not have any authority in the body of Christ --over men.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Alas, I can't stay and tussle...I am meeting some of the adolescent constituents of the God-themed Man Club I am the Master of for a softball game.

I think I will exercise my draconian authority and declare myself the pitcher.

Thanks for providing an excellent understanding of the value-added in further discussion with you. Keep Moses seat warm, he may want it back.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by tbpew

CS shared:

one man's red herring is another man's object lesson.
The name is our authority in all matters pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
The body of Christ is a reality in the Kingdom of God.

Yes. We have authority to rebuke spirits NOT men. Because it is spirits that are SUBJECT to the authority NOT men.

So, what actions within the BODY of Christ illustrates any member being subject to any other member's dominion/authority?. Come on now... that is the scene where we see authority is in operation. Cast out devils, they bolt because of authority in operation.

If you want to pick the time when the doors open....have at it.
If you want to pick the color of the carpet...you may well have that authority in the building you open for assembling.

So CS, again what did Paul do to turn the guy over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh? Something SO SOBER, and the scripture is silent? I don't think so, I think he would have marked them the cause division...as a guide... instructing that fellowship not be enjoined with fornicators. Choice now moves to me, the hearer. If authority of God is at work...NO CHOICE!

.....
you shared an anecdote about your pastor....
in your years of ministry have you turned anyone over to Satan?
Has there been fornicators in your ministry that wiped their mouths and said we have done no wrong?

What was the outcome of their transformation with destroyed flesh?

We have authority over spiritual strongholds. Lets use it where we have it and forget about where we do not have any authority in the body of Christ --over men.

Turning someone over to Satan is something I would consider an extreme act as a last resort, and should be undertaken only at the prompting of the Holy Ghost.

I have a story or two I could tell, but I choose not to, particularly in this setting.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by tbpew

Thanks for providing an excellent understanding of the value-added in further discussion with you. Keep Moses seat warm, he may want it back.

Now tb, let's not be testy.

You use language that deliberately mocks the local church, and then get a little snippy when I use it sardonically as an illustration?

Or was your post just dry humor that I read as basically saying that you saw no point in discussing anything with me?

[Coonskinner]

BTW, I am just funnin' with you tb.

I think you are a pleasant fellow to visit with.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Now tb, let's not be testy.

You use language that deliberately mocks the local church, and then get a little snippy when I use it sardonically as an illustration?

Or was your post just dry humor that I read as basically saying that you saw no point in discussing anything with me?

I share views with as much consistency to the larger questions incorporated by the whole witness of scripture, you're anchored on the English read of Heb 13:17.

Heb 13:17 does not stand alone in the cannon of scripture. If I am to obey RULERS I have a RULER over me in the body of Christ OTHER THAN the head of that Body.

If you have permitted a known fornicator to continue in fellowship with the assembly you feel you have oversight, you would be worthy of the same rebuke Paul offered to in your cite. Sober or not, last resort? Did Paul say it should be a last resort after a few months or years of gone by?

If a remedy exists and the authority has been given, not using it is a curious thing.

Authority over spirits --YES
Authority over men --NO.