Do you hafta go through the pastor?

[Rico]

Originally Posted by tbpew

Casting a vision.
What does that mean in general and REALLY what does that mean in the context of understanding the operation of authority.

If Rico is in setting where no one else presently sees a field of souls in the prisons, does he have a vision that is completely void of any rebellion to any authority in the Kingdom of God? If a person has a vision for a work in the Kingdom of God that is not shared by a Pastor, teacher, Elder or Bishop, is that person in harms way? I think most would probably say…NO...with a truckload of caveats.

But, if a pastor or teacher or elder or bishop ‘casts a vision’ what does that pastor or teacher or elder or bishop expect of those people who are involved with his life? I think the general expectation by such a person is that these folks will labor in the yoke WITH HIM to see his vision come to pass.

Is that the way God set things up? Do I have a VISION if I am laboring to see someone else’s vision come to pass. Shouldn’t vision involve ME SEEING something for myself?

I submit that if I enjoin myself to somebody else’s vision, I have not seen anything and I am following a man’s vision and over time will become a disciple of the person whose vision I am co-laboring with to see come to pass.

Just a few basics that most already know.
1. CASTING a vision is not witnessed or prompted in scripture.
2. Where NO vision the people perish, but this negative is contrasted with…. KEEPING the law makes one happy. Is this the basis for people who see themselves as RULERs casting a vision?
3. Working out my own salvation with fear and trembling can not be linked or predicated upon a pastor having a VISION. That would require God to be respecter of persons.

See this is why it all rolls up to this establishing premise that we are saved by OBEYING the guy God put over us as our RULER. I’d guess most folks who presently believe they have the RULE pertaining to other members of the Body of Christ do not actually want this responsibility. But since they probably believe this to be their role, a vision of what kind of things should be going on is an important part. The good faith bargain is that if we do what we are told, we will be welcomed by God into heaven because we were obedient to do what the guy with the vision said we should do toward the fulfillment of his vision. That whole deal scares me a whole lot.

Will your pastor’s vision save you if you have no vision of your own?
If you need a vision, how does your vision get reconciled when your RULER does not share the vision?
Is authority in operation when a vision is cast?
Do we see a scriptural admonition to cast visions for other folks?

Interesting stuff that gets so little consideration in our thoughts because these phrases become familiar clichés.

Um, what is so wrong about becoming a part of your pastor's vision? Didn't Paul say to follow him as he followed Christ? I mean, I don't want to do this totally by myself. I am hoping to find others who are willing to share this ministry with me.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Rico

Um, what is so wrong about becoming a part of your pastor's vision? Didn't Paul say to follow him as he followed Christ? I mean, I don't want to do this totally by myself. I am hoping to find others who are willing to share this ministry with me.

Rico, the scripture you quoted obligates you to determine that your version of "Paul" is following Christ.

Such an obligation is complete foolishness if your relationship to the one you are following is a God-appointed RULER that you are to OBEY.

Folks are wanting to have it both ways, but the scripture is not providing you an out for being "out to lunch"....while being obedient to what you have been told by some man in your life.

AS example...
The error would be that if God has not called you or your wife to teach in a church school but your present RULER (the one with presumed authority OVER your life in Christ) has a vision for Church school that will evangelize school age children, what will happen?

Will you watch your wife go volunteer in the school while your own children go to the daycare?
Will you speak against the RULER's vision as having NO witness in your own life and be reviewed for possible sowing of discord and disunity with the RULER's vision?
Will you OBEY and live out your days in that role because you were told that the most important thing to do is OBEY those who are YOUR RULERS?
Hey, what if you feel the God is leading your home to be involved with Home Instruction....ARE YOU REBELLOUS by having a vision separate from your RULER's?

Likely you may wander from one guy's vision to another guy's vision hoping to find a match when all along you had your own vision.