KH believes the Light Doctrine??

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Matt ... Kudos for stirring it up!!!

I agree w/ you .... it is a contradiction .... you can't have it both ways ... either it is or isn't the plan of salvation.

Why not? The only thing I can say for sure is that Acts 2:38 is the way given for us to be saved.

1. However, God is sovereign and can do what He wants. We have many, many examples in Scripture of God going outside of His spoken word and/or commandments.

2. I would also point out that Acts 2:38 doesn't say it is the only way, although we know that Jesus is the only way. If someone asks me how to get some place; I could tell them one way and there could still be other ways.

3. Which isn't to say that I would tell someone that there might be another way. I'm all for walking on the known path when it comes to salvation.

4. Yet, it is inconceivable to me that some of the finest people walking the earth; loving God and working diligently for the kingdom of God and even losing thier lives for the Gospel are going to be cast into hell.

So this 3 stepper says Acts 2:38 is the known way and I wouldn't want suggest trying a shortcut; but I sure hope to see alot of other folks there.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Newman

Why not? The only thing I can say for sure is that Acts 2:38 is the way given for us to be saved.

1. However, God is sovereign and can do what He wants. We have many, many examples in Scripture of God going outside of His spoken word and/or commandments.

2. I would also point out that Acts 2:38 doesn't say it is the only way, although we know that Jesus is the only way. If someone asks me how to get some place; I could tell them one way and there could still be other ways.

3. Which isn't to say that I would tell someone that there might be another way. I'm all for walking on the known path when it comes to salvation.

4. Yet, it is inconceivable to me that some of the finest people walking the earth; loving God and working diligently for the kingdom of God and even losing thier lives for the Gospel are going to be cast into hell.

So this 3 stepper says Acts 2:38 is the known way and I wouldn't want suggest trying a shortcut; but I sure hope to see alot of other folks there.

Aha! Now that was an interesting post.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Newman

Why not? The only thing I can say for sure is that Acts 2:38 is the way given for us to be saved.

1. However, God is sovereign and can do what He wants. We have many, many examples in Scripture of God going outside of His spoken word and/or commandments.

2. I would also point out that Acts 2:38 doesn't say it is the only way, although we know that Jesus is the only way. If someone asks me how to get some place; I could tell them one way and there could still be other ways.

3. Which isn't to say that I would tell someone that there might be another way. I'm all for walking on the known path when it comes to salvation.

4. Yet, it is inconceivable to me that some of the finest people walking the earth; loving God and working diligently for the kingdom of God and even losing thier lives for the Gospel are going to be cast into hell.

So this 3 stepper says Acts 2:38 is the known way and I wouldn't want suggest trying a shortcut; but I sure hope to see alot of other folks there.

My caveats being:
Joh 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Newman

Why not? The only thing I can say for sure is that Acts 2:38 is the way given for us to be saved.

1. However, God is sovereign and can do what He wants. We have many, many examples in Scripture of God going outside of His spoken word and/or commandments.

2. I would also point out that Acts 2:38 doesn't say it is the only way, although we know that Jesus is the only way. If someone asks me how to get some place; I could tell them one way and there could still be other ways.

3. Which isn't to say that I would tell someone that there might be another way. I'm all for walking on the known path when it comes to salvation.

4. Yet, it is inconceivable to me that some of the finest people walking the earth; loving God and working diligently for the kingdom of God and even losing thier lives for the Gospel are going to be cast into hell.

So this 3 stepper says Acts 2:38 is the known way and I wouldn't want suggest trying a shortcut; but I sure hope to see alot of other folks there.

Joel Osteen would be proud ... Newman .... Jesus is indeed our plan of salvation ... we all agree that Acts 2:38 is the proper response to the Gospel.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Joel Osteen would be proud ... Newman .... Jesus is indeed our plan of salvation ... we all agree that Acts 2:38 is the proper response to the Gospel.

Huh? When did Joel Olsteen ever speak to his congregation about Acts 2:38? What is your point here?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Newman

Huh? When did Joel Olsteen ever speak to his congregation about Acts 2:38? What is your point here?

Yanking your chain, Newman ... on your view of multiple ways to salvation

Osteen a while back on Larry King Live :

On Larry King Live, the following very disturbing conversation occurred with Larry King and Joel Osteen:

KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?
OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

At this point, even Larry King appears surprised by Osteen’s answer. Then Larry tosses Osteen a "soft-ball" to explain his previous answer. And again Osteen openly denies that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way of salvation.

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?
OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God will judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

Again Osteen denies the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Notice, he praises the pagan, false-religion of India as "I know they love God." Unbelievable. . .
I’m sure some reading this are thinking, "Well, maybe Larry caught Joel Osteen flat footed. Maybe Osteen wasn’t prepared." If Osteen only had been given another chance to testify of the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ, he’d get it straightened out.
Osteen did get another chance. . .
After Larry King opened the phone lines, a concerned Christian asks Joel to clarify his previous statement (which we just viewed). Again Osteen could easily clear this up.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. You're the best, and thank you, Joe -- Joel -- for your positive messages and your book. I'm wondering, though, why you side-stepped Larry's earlier question about how we get to heaven? The Bible clearly tells us that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and the only way to the father is through him. That's not really a message of condemnation but of truth.
OSTEEN: Yes, I would agree with her. I believe that. . .
KING: So then a Jew is not going to heaven?
OSTEEN: No. Here's my thing, Larry, is I can't judge somebody's heart. You know? Only God can look at somebody's heart, and so -- I don't know. To me, it's not my business to say, you know, this one is or this one isn't. I just say, here's what the Bible teaches and I'm going to put my faith in Christ. And I just I think it's wrong when you go around saying, you're saying you're not going, you're not going, you're not going, because it's not exactly my way. I'm just...
KING: But you believe your way.
OSTEEN: I believe my way. I believe my way with all my heart.
KING: But for someone who doesn't share it is wrong, isn't he?
OSTEEN: Well, yes. Well, I don't know if I look at it like that. I would present my way, but I'm just going to let God be the judge of that. I don't know. I don't know.
KING: So you make no judgment on anyone?
OSTEEN: No. But I...

And here Larry really tosses Joel a soft-ball. How about a God-defying atheist? And again, Osteen will not confess that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way of salvation.

KING: What about atheists?
OSTEEN: You know what, I'm going to let someone -- I'm going to let God be the judge of who goes to heaven and hell. I just -- again, I present the truth, and I say it every week. You know, I believe it's a relationship with Jesus. But you know what? I'm not going to go around telling everybody else if they don't want to believe that that's going to be their choice. God's got to look at your own heart. God's got to look at your heart, and only God knows that.



http://www.av1611.org/osteen.html

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Yanking your chain, Newman ... on your view of multiple ways to salvation

[B]And again, Osteen will not confess that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way of salvation.

1. My point was about the possibility of more than one to get into heaven; and

2. I will confess that I believe Jesus Christ is the ONLY way of salvation.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Yanking your chain, Newman ... on your view of multiple ways to salvation

Osteen a while back on Larry King Live :

On Larry King Live, the following very disturbing conversation occurred with Larry King and Joel Osteen:

KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?
OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

At this point, even Larry King appears surprised by Osteen’s answer. Then Larry tosses Osteen a "soft-ball" to explain his previous answer. And again Osteen openly denies that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way of salvation.

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?
OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God will judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

Again Osteen denies the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Notice, he praises the pagan, false-religion of India as "I know they love God." Unbelievable. . .
I’m sure some reading this are thinking, "Well, maybe Larry caught Joel Osteen flat footed. Maybe Osteen wasn’t prepared." If Osteen only had been given another chance to testify of the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ, he’d get it straightened out.
Osteen did get another chance. . .
After Larry King opened the phone lines, a concerned Christian asks Joel to clarify his previous statement (which we just viewed). Again Osteen could easily clear this up.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. You're the best, and thank you, Joe -- Joel -- for your positive messages and your book. I'm wondering, though, why you side-stepped Larry's earlier question about how we get to heaven? The Bible clearly tells us that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and the only way to the father is through him. That's not really a message of condemnation but of truth.
OSTEEN: Yes, I would agree with her. I believe that. . .
KING: So then a Jew is not going to heaven?
OSTEEN: No. Here's my thing, Larry, is I can't judge somebody's heart. You know? Only God can look at somebody's heart, and so -- I don't know. To me, it's not my business to say, you know, this one is or this one isn't. I just say, here's what the Bible teaches and I'm going to put my faith in Christ. And I just I think it's wrong when you go around saying, you're saying you're not going, you're not going, you're not going, because it's not exactly my way. I'm just...
KING: But you believe your way.
OSTEEN: I believe my way. I believe my way with all my heart.
KING: But for someone who doesn't share it is wrong, isn't he?
OSTEEN: Well, yes. Well, I don't know if I look at it like that. I would present my way, but I'm just going to let God be the judge of that. I don't know. I don't know.
KING: So you make no judgment on anyone?
OSTEEN: No. But I...

And here Larry really tosses Joel a soft-ball. How about a God-defying atheist? And again, Osteen will not confess that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way of salvation.

KING: What about atheists?
OSTEEN: You know what, I'm going to let someone -- I'm going to let God be the judge of who goes to heaven and hell. I just -- again, I present the truth, and I say it every week. You know, I believe it's a relationship with Jesus. But you know what? I'm not going to go around telling everybody else if they don't want to believe that that's going to be their choice. God's got to look at your own heart. God's got to look at your heart, and only God knows that.



http://www.av1611.org/osteen.html

I think Joel did a very poor job of trying to express that we are witnesses, not judges.

I agree with him that it is God who will judge every human being and not us BUT he also should have not embraced fully and without qualification the scripture that says Jesus is the only way.

[Sam]

I saw the Joel Osteen interview with Larry King and thought he did not do well. He later apologized for the way he had handled it.

I don't know how well I would have done on tv before the whole world when questioned like that by Larry King. I hope I could lovingly and firmly quote the words of Jesus in John 14:6, the words of the Apostle Peter in Acts 4:12, and the words of the Apostle Paul in 1 Timothy 2:5 and say that this is how I understand the Bible but only God is our Judge.

By the way, anybody see any of Larry's interviews with Tammy Faye? I don't know what your opinion of her might have been but she was a very open and sincere witness for Jesus on his show. She also plainly let it be known that she had been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

[Sam]

This is from page 7 of Bishop G.T. Haywood's book on the Resurrection of the Dead. This man was very respected among Oneness Pentecostals and had a great influence on preachers and teachers.

The Second Resurrection.
According to the inspired word of God the resurrection of the
"blessed and Holy" is completed a thousand years before the second
resurrection. It is from this point that we are obliged to note the
difference between partakers of the two resurrections.
After the thousand years expire "the rest of the dead" (those who
did not come forth in the first resurrection) both righteous and
wicked, live again and are made to stand before God. It is then that
Jesus separates them as a shepherd divideth the sheep from the goat
according to Matt. 25:31-46.
In this resurrection is included all the righteous men of all
ages who walked in all the light that they were given. It is my candid
opinion that all heathen, Israelites, Christian professors who have
never heard the true gospel of Christ and those who die during
the millennium, walking in the light of their times will be given
eternal life at the last resurrection.
Many righteous people have died without the Holy Ghost and
the question has been asked: "Where will they come in?" They shall be
given eternal life in the last day. They shall inherit the New
Earth where life eternal reigns because "there shall be no more death.
If we desire to take part in the first resurrection we must be
filled with the same Holy Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. It
is the church of the First-born that takes part in the first
resurrection. To enter into that Church, which is his body, we must be
baptized into it by both water and the Spirit. (See John 3:5; Rom.
6:3-5; 1 Cor. 12:12, 13; Gal. 3:26-28.