Water baptism, can you agree with this statement?

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

This is reprehensible ... and a bold faced lie.

Then what purpose does it serve? You have clearly stated that it IS NOT salvational!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by philjones

Then what purpose does it serve? You have clearly stated that it IS NOT salvational!

Is giving an offering salvational, Phil? Are we not commanded to do so?

Stop lying about our position.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Is giving an offering salvational, Phil? Are we not commanded to do so?

Stop lying about our position.

I assure you sir... I am not lying about your position. I may not understand it but I am not lying. Please do not state that I am a liar again.

It is my understanding that you believe baptism serves no purpose and is not a part of salvation. Is that true or not?

If one does not give an offering as commanded will they be saved?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Is giving an offering salvational, Phil? Are we not commanded to do so?

Stop lying about our position.

Holiness is salvational. Loving your brother is salvational. Honesty is salvational.

But our initial salvation, that which brings us into the body of Christ is the the doctrine of baptisms. 1 Cor 12:13 I'm not dismissing faith and repentance (they are essential) but what gives us entry into the body of Christ is the Spirit's work of washing away our sins in water baptism and filling us with his Spirit, our new birth.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Holiness is salvational. Loving your brother is salvational. Honesty is salvational.

But our initial salvation, that which brings us into the body of Christ is the the doctrine of baptisms. 1 Cor 12:13 I'm not dismissing faith and repentance (they are essential) but what gives us entry into the body of Christ is the Spirit's work of washing away our sins in water baptism and filling us with his Spirit, our new birth.

I'm glad someone is being honest here ... we are talking about the New Birth experience ... initial salvation.

The things you mentioned are results of our New Birth experience ... NOT the causes.

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I'm glad someone is being honest here ... we are talking about the New Birth experience ... initial salvation.

The things you mentioned are results of our New Birth experience ... NOT the causes.

And to this fact (initial salvation) my good friend DA is baptism essential to initial salvation? Which is the real question of this threads beginning.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by bishoph

And to this fact (initial salvation) my good friend DA is baptism essential to initial salvation? Which is the real question of this threads beginning.

And this debate is centuries old ... the Oneness Apostolic movement has argued it also for close to a century... the real question is who is willing to tolerate who and address the issues on their merits ... and not foregone conclusions ????

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

And this debate is centuries old ... the Oneness Apostolic movement has argued it also for close to a century... the real question is who is willing to tolerate who and address the issues on their merits ... and not foregone conclusions ????

Dan, a yes or no was required to answer the Bishop's question.

I already know what you believe.

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

And this debate is centuries old ... the Oneness Apostolic movement has argued it also for close to a centry... the real question is who is willing to tolerate who and address the issues on their merits ... and not foregone conclusions ????

I love your evasiveness! This may have been debated for centuries however, you are refusing to answer where you stand. This thread is specifically asking about the salvational value of baptism.

I have already stated earlier the John 3:5 situation and the error of using the "water even the spirit" stance, which you did not repudiate.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Is giving an offering salvational, Phil? Are we not commanded to do so?

Stop lying about our position.

So baptism equates with giving an offering?????????????????? Communion?????

You confuse with your 'position'? NOT salvational but a command?????