Ministerial Ethics, Dropping Out and TV: Did You Forget You Agreed to This?

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Is disaffiliating the same as alienating?

Could be.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

It depends on whether the pastor accepted the pastorate of a local assembly, or if he were the one who pioneered that particular constincuency. I would think that one would not try and take a church that he himself did not pastor from the beginning. I also believe that it would depend upon wether or not that particular church was affiliated with the UPCI.

For the record, I know of a UPCI church where the board voted to affiliate when it was started as a home missions church, BUT the signed paperwork was never sent in. The new current pastor has taken advantage of this loophole and the church is now no longer UPCI!

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

No ... but the ethical thing to do ... I think ....according to this code is for the pastor not exert influence over the affiliated church as to make them vote to disaffiliate ... Am I wrong?

Nor should they influence others in the fellowship or in the support of the fellowship.

Wow! for once in a long while I agree.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

This is very true, however some folks, especially on the conservative side of the fence believe that progression and change is actually a compromise of conviction, no matter the end result. What is more important, reaching one soul, or laying down of a tradition that defines your position among your peers?

These men don't just see it as a tradition of that stripe, Carp.

This is a matter of gravest importance to them.

Whether you agree with them or not, there it is. That's how they see it.

No church can be forced to disaffiliate.

The presbyter and the DS have a right to come and argue against it at the meeting.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

How can a shepherd desert sheep when he sees the wolf at the door?

This is complex, Sister.

These men have a deep conviction that this move by the organization is going to lead to a casting away of precious things.

What kind of pastor would leave people in that state?

This is a new thing we are facing, because this is the first time one of our distinctives has been removed from our manual.

That creates a whole new set of circumstances never dealt with before.

Reverand Coonskinner, when is the ministry and the movement as a whole realize that some of the things they hold precious do not gain value with age and in fact some of these diminish with age, then is when foundational growth will occur.

If you are not growing, you are dying and struggling to move around in traditional tar and mud is not growing nor is it progress.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

These men don't just see it as a tradition of that stripe, Carp.

This is a matter of gravest importance to them.

Whether you agree with them or not, there it is. That's how they see it.

No church can be forced to disaffiliate.

The presbyter and the DS have a right to come and argue against it at the meeting.

Absolutely. I may not have grasped the tenor of this discussion. There I go again trying to influence people to think progressively...

[ILG]

]

How can a shepherd desert sheep when he sees the wolf at the door?

This is complex, Sister.

Complex? No kidding. Been there, done that.

These men have a deep conviction that this move by the organization is going to lead to a casting away of precious things.

What kind of pastor would leave people in that state?

This is a new thing we are facing, because this is the first time one of our distinctives has been removed from our manual.

That creates a whole new set of circumstances never dealt with before

Well, it gets very sticky doesn't it? The bottom line when the rubber meets the road, is whatever choice a pastor makes, it best be a good one, as good for everybody as it can be. It best not be a hasty decision or any bandwagon one where a man does it because he is following the crowd of ministers going out the door with peer pressure. It's between him and God and that is Who he will answer to in the long run.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by ILG

]

Complex? No kidding. Been there, done that.



Well, it gets very sticky doesn't it? The bottom line when the rubber meets the road, is whatever choice a pastor makes, it best be a good one, as good for everybody as it can be. It best not be a hasty decision or any bandwagon one where a man does it because he is following the crowd of ministers going out the door with peer pressure. It's between him and God and that is Who he will answer to in the long run.

Exactly.

That is where the real rubber is going to meet the road.

But to compare this with guys who sign the AS when they are clearly in violation of it is bogus. And that was the intent, which I have demonstrated to be a false comparison.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by ILG

I think in order to not alienate the church from the UPC, they need to quietly resign and move on like my husband and I did.

Yes ... indeed from the jumpstart we have speaking about acting honorably ... according to the manual.

My Coon friend, is trying to obfuscate ... by claiming someone asserted that the the AS is an affirmation of the AOF [although not accurate] and hence not applicable to position papers ...

but no such argument here was made. Please re-read posts in this thread.

Surely, my Kansas colleague, would not be proposing that ministers don't agree to the code of ethics, bylaws and position papers ... when they sign and apply for their ministerial license .... or that this code of ethics in not used to define ethical behavior in the org ... nor that it is not used in proceedings against ministers placed under question.

The AS was brought up later in this thread as to support another contradiction found in those seeking to divide the fellowship.

Apples and oranges, indeed.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Moreover, this pastor who has agreed to the code of ethics can be deemed unethical if he is trying to influence other fellow ministers in the org.

Good point.