Why Some Question the Apostolic Doctrine

Sandra · #1 10-18-2007, 09:54 AM

First ,I want to clarify this thread and say, I am NOT saying the Apostolic Doctrine is wrong.

This is something I have heard in the past 10 years from preachers who have left the UPC.

Some are shakey on the Doctrine, they say if the UPC was wrong in area's like outward appearance and other man made beliefs, this is cause for us to take another look at the Doctrine.

I know many when they leave say " We are like the UPC in doctrine but that other legalistic stuff we have done away with."
By saying this it really helps dealing with family still in the UPC.

HangingOut · #2 10-18-2007, 01:06 PM

A broad response to this is obvious. The doctrine represents less than 1% of the Christian world. The more specific area you are talking about has to with the sharing of blblical interpretation in general. a.k.a. internet. Not too far in the distant past, most of us only heard or read what was preached and taught in apostolic circles.
There are folks that have left the movement for reasons such as what you are suggesting and I think more and more are feeling less afraid to express doubts and raise question they had all along. I for one, believe we have the understanding of the Godhead down. I have issues with "full salvation" and Acts 2:38 however.

Joseph Miller · #3 10-18-2007, 01:36 PM

We are absolutely correct on the Godhead and no the "full salvation" message.

We are the only ones that are preaching exactly what the O.T. was a foreshadowing of.

The Tabernacle with all its rituals points to Acts 2:38. In Luke 24 just before Jesus is taken up he tells the disciples what to preach and what to expect. It is an outline of what happened at Pentecost and what Peter would preach. Then when we reach Acts 2 the Spirit falls on them. Peter preaches to the crowd gathered and when they asked what they must do he tells them to repent, get baptized in Jesus name and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. All he did was reveal what all there thousands of years of rituals and bloody sacrifices in the Tabernacle and Temples was pointing forward toward.

We have it right, there is no reason to doubt it. There is no room for debate on if this is the truth or not. All we need to do is share it with the world around us, it is the "...Power of God unto salvation..."

marthaolivia · #4 10-18-2007, 01:39 PM

My pastor has said that "It is not what you know but what you believe" I still and will always believe that the baptism in Jesus name and knowing that Jesus is God is fundamental to salvation.

Praxeas · #5 10-18-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandra

First ,I want to clarify this thread and say, I am NOT saying the Apostolic Doctrine is wrong.

This is something I have heard in the past 10 years from preachers who have left the UPC.

Some are shakey on the Doctrine, they say if the UPC was wrong in area's like outward appearance and other man made beliefs, this is cause for us to take another look at the Doctrine.

I know many when they leave say " We are like the UPC in doctrine but that other legalistic stuff we have done away with."
By saying this it really helps dealing with family still in the UPC.

That one doctrine is wrong does not necessarily mean all doctrines are or could be wrong.

Did the Lutherans check out the Trinity and baptism in the titles when he discovered the Catholics were wrong? Did any Trinitarian preacher or group upon discovering something they had believed before check to see if the rest was wrong?

Joseph Miller · #6 10-18-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That one doctrine is wrong does not necessarily mean all doctrines are or could be wrong.

Did the Lutherans check out the Trinity and baptism in the titles when he discovered the Catholics were wrong? Did any Trinitarian preacher or group upon discovering something they had believed before check to see if the rest was wrong?

No, but they should have.

I am not against people questioning with an honest heart before God if this is the truth or not. I did that myself and when I did, God gave the revelation of it. It would do people good to ask God to reveal HIS truth to them. Then it wouldn't be UPCI doctrine or "traditional" pentecostal doctrine or as one person said to me "your 'brand' of doctrine". The question would be settled once and for all, this is truth and anything less is not truth and won't work.

Michlow · #7 10-18-2007, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That one doctrine is wrong does not necessarily mean all doctrines are or could be wrong.

Actually, it does.

If someone tells you that something is absolute Truth, heaven or hell, God's Word, and it in fact turns out to be not the case. It immediately brings into question every other thing they told you was absolute Truth...etc...

Praxeas · #8 10-18-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michlow

Actually, it does.

If someone tells you that something is absolute Truth, heaven or hell, God's Word, and it in fact turns out to be not the case. It immediately brings into question every other thing they told you was absolute Truth...etc...

No it does not necessarily do that. YOU do that. That is YOUR own volition. It is not the logical conclusion that if one thing is wrong ALL other things should be suspect.

I also think it is faulty to have to wait until someone decides one thing could be wrong before examining if the rest are wrong. We should all always be examining what we believe all the time, not just Oneness Pentecostals that left standards

dizzyde · #9 10-18-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No it does not necessarily do that. YOU do that. That is YOUR own volition. It is not the logical conclusion that if one thing is wrong ALL other things should be suspect.

I also think it is faulty to have to wait until someone decides one thing could be wrong before examining if the rest are wrong. We should all always be examining what we believe all the time, not just Oneness Pentecostals that left standards

I agree, I strongly believe that we are to be in subjection to the ministry, but the Bible also clearly tells us to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling". I think our eyes should always be open to being led astray by false doctrine (by which I mean, anything that goes against God's word).

Sherri · #10 10-18-2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No it does not necessarily do that. YOU do that. That is YOUR own volition. It is not the logical conclusion that if one thing is wrong ALL other things should be suspect.

I also think it is faulty to have to wait until someone decides one thing could be wrong before examining if the rest are wrong. We should all always be examining what we believe all the time, not just Oneness Pentecostals that left standards

I don't know, Prax. I tend to think that Mich's reaction is a pretty typical one. When your whole doctrinal foundation starts to crumble, you have to go back to Scripture for yourself and search out EVERYTHING to find out what is truth.