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10-29-2007, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
That is a misquote. What I said was:
"Biblical points aside, the insensitivity on this issue is shocking. Our western culture is not a culture of restraint, which places alcohol use in a whole different category than it was in Bible days."
You don't agree that western culture is one of indulgence, generally speaking?
Were there any other parts of my post which you felt weren't biblically supported, or supported by other evidence?
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See bible ... for Israelites engaging in overindulgence ... the days of Noah ... etc .... it's been a humanity issue, sis.
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10-29-2007, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
See bible ... for Israelites engaging in overindulgence ... the days of Noah ... etc .... it's been a humanity issue, sis.
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Sure. But there are times when it is worse than others, and our culture seems to be one of indulgence, more so than in eras past, and more than other parts of the world. The laxness and immorality of societies seems to ebb and flow by times, and this seems to be one of those "flow" times.
Anyway...I'll take your explanation and raise you...if its a humanity issue, then don't we have to address it a bit more firmly? Instead of making allowances for our humanity? If humanity in general has a problem being self-disciplined enough to practice moderation, then aren't we treading on dangerous ground when we ask for moderation?
You seem to be contradicting yourself, stating on one hand overindulgence is a humanity issue, and then on the flip side implying that Europeans, "wine drinkers", are not indulgent? If it is indeed a humanity issue, then all cultures deal with it.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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10-29-2007, 04:34 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
Sure. But there are times when it is worse than others, and our culture seems to be one of indulgence, more so than in eras past, and more than other parts of the world. The laxness and immorality of societies seems to ebb and flow by times, and this seems to be one of those "flow" times.
Anyway...I'll take your explanation and raise you...if its a humanity issue, then don't we have to address it a bit more firmly? Instead of making allowances for our humanity? If humanity in general has a problem being self-disciplined enough to practice moderation, then aren't we treading on dangerous ground when we ask for moderation?
You seem to be contradicting yourself, stating on one hand overindulgence is a humanity issue, and then on the flip side implying that Europeans, "wine drinkers", are not indulgent? If it is indeed a humanity issue, then all cultures deal with it.
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And you still fail to understand drinking in moderation is a biblical principle.
We can flip this one a million ways .... whether it's not your conviction or not ....
It's permissible under any context or historical era.
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10-29-2007, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
And you still fail to understand drinking in moderation is a biblical principle.
We flip this one a million ways .... whether it's not your conviction or not ....
It's permissible under any context.
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No, drinking in moderation is a biblical ALLOWANCE. Biblical PRINCIPLE advises otherwise, in several spots.
It also allows polygamy, except for bishops. But wouldn't you agree that Biblical PRINCIPLE points us in the direction of a single spouse?
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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10-29-2007, 04:39 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
No, drinking in moderation is a biblical ALLOWANCE. Biblical PRINCIPLE advises otherwise, in several spots.
It also allows polygamy, except for bishops. But wouldn't you agree that Biblical PRINCIPLE points us in the direction of a single spouse?
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More obfuscation and semantical play..... One is clearly defined by Jesus [single spouse marriage] ... the other is celebrated by him and practiced by him ..... by his disciples ... early Christian Jews and Gentiles .... cross-culturally - throughout the NT.
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10-29-2007, 04:42 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
More obfuscation and semantical play..... One is clearly defined by Jesus [single marriage] ... the other is celebrated by him and practiced by him ..... by his disciples ... Christian Jews and Gentiles .... cross-culturally.
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*sigh*
There really is no need for you to characterize anyone's post, as if you know their underlying motive, when of course you don't.
I suppose the only examples and allegories allowed are the ones you employ to prove your points...LOL!
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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10-29-2007, 06:27 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
And you still fail to understand drinking in moderation is a biblical principle.
We can flip this one a million ways .... whether it's not your conviction or not ....
It's permissible under any context or historical era.
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They did not merely drink in moderation. Wine was cut with water. It was watered down. They drank it because water alone was sickening and grape juice did not last long unless fermented...having no refrigeration. Other drinks had the same problem...no refrigeration
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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