Should they leave or stay?

Digging4Truth · #1 11-05-2007, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

When one cannot agree with and obey what is being preached they need to leave. To stay there and be in rebellion is wrong.

So... in any given situation there is only one party who can be wrong? That being the saint?

Whole Hearted · #2 11-05-2007, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

So... in any given situation there is only one party who can be wrong? That being the saint?

Never said that.

MissBrattified · #3 11-05-2007, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

So... in any given situation there is only one party who can be wrong? That being the saint?

Even if the pastor is wrong, it would be wrong for me to defy the leadership. Better to find somewhere else to attend, and make sure things are right between me and God, than to put myself in the dangerous position of trying to pull down or overthrow church leaders.

David's response to Saul in the cave is a prime example of what our attitude should be.

Whole Hearted · #4 11-05-2007, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I think that even if the pastor is wrong, that it would be wrong for me to defy the leadership. Better to find somewhere else to attend, and make sure things are right between me and God, than to put myself in the dangerous position of trying to pull down or overthrow church leaders.

David's response to Saul in the cave is a prime example of what our attitude should be.

I must amen this

MissBrattified · #5 11-05-2007, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

I must amen this

Goodness, I need to go back to bed and get up again. We've agreed twice this morning already.

Digging4Truth · #6 11-05-2007, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Even if the pastor is wrong, it would be wrong for me to defy the leadership. Better to find somewhere else to attend, and make sure things are right between me and God, than to put myself in the dangerous position of trying to pull down or overthrow church leaders.

David's response to Saul in the cave is a prime example of what our attitude should be.

David didn't kill Saul. So I shouldn't kill the pastor. Got it.

Or... better expressed... David didn't return to Saul the vengefulness that Saul was hunting him down with.

David was the better man. And... on that I can agree.

David was running for his life. He didn't "leave the church" out of some holy respect for Saul. He was being hunted down and, when given the chance to return the same to Saul that Saul was seeking to deal to David he chose to be the better man and not kill him.

The reason things were going the way they were is because Saul was on a blood thirsty man hunt.

David did not rail against him. Wise move. An excellent spirit is always a wise move. But Saul would not speak peaceably with him and was driven by anger and jealousy. This is the reason Saul was removed and the reason God promised David that he would give his enemy into his hand to deal with as he wished.

So the example of Saul & David is one that a person should consider if a leader basically turns on someone and tells them they need to hit the road or otherwise demonstrates they no longer have a willingness to talk.

The example is to keep an excellent spirit and God will take care of it.

But... the hope would be that we would not reach this point. The hope would be that open & honest discussion can be had. The hope would be that brethren could study, pray & discuss together things that they don't see eye to eye.

But... should that lead to anger in those in leadership then keeping oneself above reproach will be the best way to walk as per the excellent example of David.

MissBrattified · #7 11-05-2007, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

David didn't kill Saul. So I shouldn't kill the pastor. Got it.

Or... better expressed... David didn't return to Saul the vengefulness that Saul was hunting him down with.

David was the better man. And... on that I can agree.

David was running for his life. He didn't "leave the church" out of some holy respect for Saul. He was being hunted down and, when given the chance to return the same to Saul that Saul was seeking to deal to David he chose to be the better man and not kill him.

The reason things were going the way they were is because Saul was on a blood thirsty man hunt.

David did not rail against him. Wise move. An excellent spirit is always a wise move. But Saul would not speak peaceably with him and was driven by anger and jealousy. This is the reason Saul was removed and the reason God promised David that he would give his enemy into his hand to deal with as he wished.

So the example of Saul & David is one that a person should consider if a leader basically turns on someone and tells them they need to hit the road or otherwise demonstrates they no longer have a willingness to talk.

The example is to keep an excellent spirit and God will take care of it.

But... the hope would be that we would not reach this point. The hope would be that open & honest discussion can be had. The hope would be that brethren could study, pray & discuss together things that they don't see eye to eye.

But... should that lead to anger in those in leadership then keeping oneself above reproach will be the best way to walk as per the excellent example of David.

Nicely expanded (and expounded).

StillStanding · #8 11-05-2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

David didn't kill Saul. So I shouldn't kill the pastor. Got it.

Or... better expressed... David didn't return to Saul the vengefulness that Saul was hunting him down with.

David was the better man. And... on that I can agree.

David was running for his life. He didn't "leave the church" out of some holy respect for Saul. He was being hunted down and, when given the chance to return the same to Saul that Saul was seeking to deal to David he chose to be the better man and not kill him.

The reason things were going the way they were is because Saul was on a blood thirsty man hunt.

David did not rail against him. Wise move. An excellent spirit is always a wise move. But Saul would not speak peaceably with him and was driven by anger and jealousy. This is the reason Saul was removed and the reason God promised David that he would give his enemy into his hand to deal with as he wished.

So the example of Saul & David is one that a person should consider if a leader basically turns on someone and tells them they need to hit the road or otherwise demonstrates they no longer have a willingness to talk.

The example is to keep an excellent spirit and God will take care of it.

But... the hope would be that we would not reach this point. The hope would be that open & honest discussion can be had. The hope would be that brethren could study, pray & discuss together things that they don't see eye to eye.

But... should that lead to anger in those in leadership then keeping oneself above reproach will be the best way to walk as per the excellent example of David.

Wasn't Saul ANNOINTED leader of the nation?

StillStanding · #9 11-05-2007, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted View Post
You'd be surprised how often this happens. People here fail to tell of how preacher and their famiies have been done dirty by so called saints.

I could tell you horror stories about that,

Does that mean that most saints are terrible, horrible, controlling people . No

You are correct about some "saints" abusing the pastors! I grew up in a pastor's home!

But, how the pastor chooses to respond separates the great ones from the bad ones!

Digging4Truth · #10 11-05-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianoman

Wasn't Saul ANNOINTED leader of the nation?

I wouldn't say he was anointed. Especially would I not say he was anointed by God.

First... God took it as a rejection of Himself when they made the demand for a king.

Quote:

1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
1Sa 8:8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
1Sa 8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.

He warned them of how the king they wanted so badly was going to treat them.

Quote:

1Sa 8:10 And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.
1Sa 8:11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint [them] for himself, for his chariots, and [to be] his horsemen; and [some] shall run before his chariots.
1Sa 8:12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and [will set them] to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
1Sa 8:13 And he will take your daughters [to be] confectionaries, and [to be] cooks, and [to be] bakers.
1Sa 8:14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, [even] the best [of them], and give [them] to his servants.
1Sa 8:15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
1Sa 8:16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put [them] to his work.
1Sa 8:17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
1Sa 8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
1Sa 8:19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;

And when Saul was made King... here is the terminology.

Quote:

1Sa 11:15 And all the people went to Gilgal; and there they made Saul king before the LORD in Gilgal; and there they sacrificed sacrifices of peace offerings before the LORD; and there Saul and all the men of Israel rejoiced greatly.
1Sa 12:1 And Samuel said unto all Israel, Behold, I have hearkened unto your voice in all that ye said unto me, and have made a king over you.

He may well have been anointed... but it was by the people.

The making of Saul as King was in no way, shape, form or fashion a pleasing thing before God.