Pastor Wendell Elms, TX, defends standards on local news channel

[delta soundman]

I must be on my way down the slippery slope. This just seems offensive to me.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by delta soundman

I must be on my way down the slippery slope. This just seems offensive to me.

I am not totally offended, but I think it is a stupid thing to talk to standards to those who do not know they stand for. I am for personal convictions not standards as a dress code. I think it make them look idiotic to the unbeliever. Even though I do not agree with the standards I understand how people believe them. The part that upset me was, "When a person is filled with the spirit, something happens in their understanding of these things. Their eyes are opened to something that the world does not see." I agree our eyes are opened, but the reason God does that is to save us and bring us close to Him not so we can point out a 'fault' in society that has to do with dress code. Modest is hottest is a saying on a shirt my Sis-in-law has. Modesty is the key...DS....you have every right to be upset. I am with ya

[delta soundman]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I am not totally offended, but I think it is a stupid thing to talk to standards to those who do not know they stand for. I am for personal convictions not standards as a dress code. I think it make them look idiotic to the unbeliever. Even though I do not agree with the standards I understand how people believe them. The part that upset me was, "When a person is filled with the spirit, something happens in their understanding of these things. Their eyes are opened to something that the world does not see." I agree our eyes are opened, but the reason God does that is to save us and bring us close to Him not so we can point out a 'fault' in society that has to do with dress code. Modest is hottest is a saying on a shirt my Sis-in-law has. Modesty is the key...DS....you have every right to be upset. I am with ya

It's very interesting to me that someone would go on the Devilvison and promote standards. When our church split, the people doing the splitting came at my pastor from all angles. When people in the community ask what happened and why did our church split, the best thing I can say to people is "my pastor wouldn't say women were going to hell for wearing pants and cutting their hair".
Now tell me how does that come across to the community. A community that already feels it can't get holy enough to come through the local UPC's doors.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by delta soundman

It's very interesting to me that someone would go on the Devilvison and promote standards. When our church split, the people doing the splitting came at my pastor from all angles. When people in the community ask what happened and why did our church split, the best thing I can say to people is "my pastor wouldn't say women were going to hell for wearing pants and cutting their hair".
Now tell me how does that come across to the community. A community that already feels it can't get holy enough to come through the local UPC's doors.

I agree 100% with you. It looks so childish really. Even nowadays if you ask a churched person (ie. baptist, methodist, etc) about these things they will laugh at you. I lived in a town in Ill and there was an Apostolic church around the corner from the UPC church. I met the pastor one day and we talked about standards. He said that he had tried to get with the UPC pastor over the years and fellowship but the UPC church wouldn't because of standards. The community did not understand it. I didn't understand it then. Now I understand elitism when I see it.

[delta soundman]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I agree 100% with you. It looks so childish really. Even nowadays if you ask a churched person (ie. baptist, methodist, etc) about these things they will laugh at you. I lived in a town in Ill and there was an Apostolic church around the corner from the UPC church. I met the pastor one day and we talked about standards. He said that he had tried to get with the UPC pastor over the years and fellowship but the UPC church wouldn't because of standards. The community did not understand it. I didn't understand it then. Now I understand elitism when I see it.

That word says it all!

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by delta soundman

That word says it all!

To borrow a term from Reggie Jackson, Elitism is the 'straw that stirs the drink' in the Pentecostal movement. I know some will disagree, but truth hurts sometimes. I can say it cause I was taugh it and followed it.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I agree 100% with you. It looks so childish really. Even nowadays if you ask a churched person (ie. baptist, methodist, etc) about these things they will laugh at you. I lived in a town in Ill and there was an Apostolic church around the corner from the UPC church. I met the pastor one day and we talked about standards. He said that he had tried to get with the UPC pastor over the years and fellowship but the UPC church wouldn't because of standards. The community did not understand it. I didn't understand it then. Now I understand elitism when I see it.

Elistism? Maybe its just a matter of being true to one's convictions.

Someone else might want to argue that those convictions are off base, or out of step with the times, or whatever. But a person's convictions are their convictions, so personally I always respect the fact that a person decides to remain true to those convictions regardless of how popular/unpopular they are.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Elistism? Maybe its just a matter of being true to one's convictions.

Someone else might want to argue that those convictions are off base, or out of step with the times, or whatever. But a person's convictions are their convictions, so personally I always respect the fact that a person decides to remain true to those convictions regardless of how popular/unpopular they are.

Being true to ones convictions is fine with me. Infact, I am all for personal convictions not corporate ones. I expect rules on dress at work. I expect to hear teaching on modesty. Modesty has everthing to do with dressing properly. But I disagree on that standards/dresscode is the only modest way to dress. IMO.

My point in my post was to say that there are churches/people that have an elitist system going on. Like the church I mentioned in Ill. They could not and would not fellowship with another Apostolic church in the same community to reach the community. The UPC church had nearly no families from that community that went to the church except bus kids. The Apostolic church was full from the people from the community. There are people that will not fellowship others of non-standards belief because they either do not want their saints to see you can be Apostolic with out a dress code or they feel that they are at a 'higher light' or more 'revelation' than the non-standard church. That somehow makes them think they are better-that they can not lower themselves just for fellowship. That is what I mean about elitism. There are elitist on this forum. Doesn't make them bad people but they would not fellowship me if I pastored in the same town. IMP

[Darcie]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Following Faith: The Pentecostal Church

See Video Now


All month we're learning more about different relegions. Tonight, we focus on the Pentecostal Church.You may have seen followers in the community and wondered why the women only wear dresses. They do it to give god praise. And there is nothing that will stop them. "Women stay in dresses regardless." Pastor Wendell Elms insists wearing skirts or dresses isn't forced upon the women in his United Pentecostal Church. It's something they do to honor God, something many would consider a fundamental lifestyle.

"In function, men wear pants, because they work. They have to put themselves in situations that to see a lady in that situation is compromising." Wearing pants isn't the only thing these Pentecostal women abstain from. They don't wear make-up, jewlery or cut their hair. "There are boundaries that we put up to help us to stay Christians, that help us to be Christians."

And these boundaries don't reach far outside the home. Elms says the bible clearly define's a woman's role .

"They were keepers of the home, and that's a full-time job. They were submitted to their husbands and submitted to the word of God." He explains it's not hard to live this way, it's a spiritual choice. "When a person is filled with the spirit, something happens in their understanding of these things. Their eyes are opened to something that the world does not see."

And it's behind these doors where they find refuge and strength. Elms says this way of life was standard in America years ago but his church has no plans to fit in with secular society. "That's just a line we will not cross. We're not going to become like them just to make them feel comfortable." We are what we are. We're comfortable with what we are. We want the whole world to be this way." A world outside these doors. They do it to give God praise.

Story Created: Nov 12, 2007 at 6:27 PM CST
Story Updated: Nov 12, 2007 at 6:27 PM CST

http://www.kauz.com/home/ticker/11220801.html

Originally Posted by delta soundman

I must be on my way down the slippery slope. This just seems offensive to me.:13loads

Of course its offensive. Do you know what that sounds like to the unbeliever or the non UPC? It sounds like women shouldn't get an education because they don't need a career because they just need to stay home. That's their FULL time job. I'm a stay-at-home and I'm offended.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Darcie

Of course its offensive. Do you know what that sounds like to the unbeliever or the non UPC? It sounds like women shouldn't get an education because they don't need a career because they just need to stay home. That's their FULL time job. I'm a stay-at-home and I'm offended.

Right. I am very much in favor of mothers staying home with small children, but not to the exclusion of education. The window of child rearing is 10 -20 years, the average career nowdays is 50 years.