Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a
Such a silly stance you are taking since the Oneness revelation is not a heaven or hell issue. People use the oneness revelation as an excuse to act spiritually superior to others. Since we don't operate in the power and demonstration of the Holy Ghost on a regular basis so we have to substitue that with superiority of revelation. What scripture do you use to support the claim that SAINTS have the right to scrutinize the preacher? (Your words not mine.)
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There you go, also throwing around the word "silly" unnecessarily.
First of all, you're making some erroneous assertions and assumptions here.
First off, I have
never said that Oneness is a heaven or hell issue , even though you assume that I think it is. (It's probably better to respond to what someone clearly says their positions is on a particular topic, rather than assuming
what you think their position is on a topic.)
But beyond that, my issue with the man is more than the Oneness/Trinity. I happen to be one who thinks he has played a game of verbal hide-and-seek on that issue, as well as others, in a seeming desire to not clearly define himself and his beliefs to outsiders.
But that wasn't even the point of the my post that you responded to...[Lets get back to that for a second]... In a previous post,
Darryl said it's "silly" to criticize a man who has baptized 23,000 people in Jesus' name (as if anyone who baptizes in Jesus' name should be considered doctrinally sound just for that reason!). My point simply was/is that if someone is
compromising, or preaching a watered down doctrine in other areas (which obviously I think he's done) then the baptism thing by itself doesn't mean we should simply pat him on the back as if everything is all good.
Furthermore, this has nothing to do with acting "spiritually superior to others" as you also assert. Its a matter of having biblical convictions and sticking to them. But anyway...
For the record, My position on Jakes is simply that I don't consider him to be Apostolic; and in my view, "apostolic" refers to not just Oneness doctrine, but also the (
Acts 2:38) salvation plan itself, the necessity of the baptism of the Holy Ghost, as well as a man's willingness to declare with
Apostolic conviction and clarity what he believes on such key topics of the Godhead, baptismal formula/salvation plan/ Baptism of the Holy Ghost, etc.
Now of course, if you think Jake's teachings are fine, you may take umbrage at those who consider his positions to be in error, compromised, or watered-down. (Obviously I have a problem with the stances he has taken on several of the key issues; but that's a separate matter in itself.)
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Anyway, since you want to throw the word
silly around, I must say the only thing silly here is this question you ask me:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a
What scripture do you use to support the claim that SAINTS have the right to scrutinize the preacher? (Your words not mine.)
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What...are you kidding me? Your question would be almost almost laughable, if it weren't so sad. Are you implying that the SAINTS
do not have the right, under God, to scrutinize the preacher and his words?? That would be absurd.
The Bible is very clear that the church should be watchful against those who would preach error and false doctrine. Don't you see that in your Bible?
Anyway...since you seem to find it so unthinkable that "the preacher" should be scrutinized by the SAINTS, lets look at some scriptures here, and see if the Bible doesn't lay down a very clear principle for the saints to abide by:
Doesn't the Bible commend the Bereans as being "noble", because,even when brought the word by Paul and company, they "received the word with all readiness of mind, and
searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so" ?(
Acts 17:11).
Doesn't the bible say "prove all things" ?(
Thess 5:21) ...or as the NIV puts it "
Test everything. Hold on to the good."
Doesn't Paul write in
Galatians 1: 6-10 about those who would bring
another gospel, and also in
multiple other NT passages about the danger posed by false/erroneous doctrines creeping into the body?
Doesn't the book of Jude not only warn against false teachers, but also strongly condemn them?
Even on the subject of a
prophetic word given in the church... doesn't Paul say let 2 or 3 prophets speak, "and
let the others judge" ? (
1 Cor 14:29) So if we are to judge even the prophetic word, is the preached/ taught word above being judged/scrutinized? Clearly not.
Doesn't Paul warn the church leaders in
Acts 20:28-31 to be watchful against those who would turn the flock away to false teaching?
Doesn't Paul admonish about the importance of proper doctrine in
1 Tim 4:16 ? :"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this
thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." ??
I could throw out some more scriptures on this, but these should suffice, to make my point. The biblical principle is clear here, unless you would choose not to see it for some reason.
All the saints, both clergy and laity alike, have a responsibility to not only maintain proper doctrine, but to be watchful against those who teach error. If you assert that that is false, I'd love to see what scriptures you would provide to support you on that.
I truly feel sorry for any saint who just swallows everything their pastor tells them from the pulpit, without
weighing it against scripture. I sure hope you're not one of those.
Hybrid Mode
