Blacks and the UPCI

[SDG]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

Well ... good question also.

I guess my answer would be: for the last 40 years or so, the boards WERE a reflection of the racial makeup of the ministerial body AND church congregations in the UPC south.

THEN blacks and hispanics were relegated to "ethnic works."

I'm normally against "Affirmative Action" but I do appreciate the Louisiana District for their step regarding Richard Allmon.

Allmon was head of the "black work" for many years - a safe place for a qualified black.

Allmon is now a full-fledged member of the Louisiana District Board as "presbyter-at-large."

http://www.ladistupc.com/administrat...nistration.htm

(I notice the Louisiana District Board has undergone a major transition lately with longtime members like Glenn Chance, Fred Foster, Gene Simpkins and of course G. A. Mangun having retired.)

Here is my question: is the "Presbyter-at-Large" position an elected one by the district voting body or is it appointed?

Now let's cut to the chase.

I've sat in more sectional conferences in Louisiana and Texas than what I can count and knew the entire ministerial and pastoral body of Louisana as well as anyone when I was active in the ministry.

Do I believe ... even in 2007, that were there a qualified black pastor even pastoring an "integrated" church such as Thad's pastor ... educated, able, with bearing and gravitas - do I believe such a man could be elected sectional presbyter by a section in Louisiana or to a real influential District Office other than an ethnic one by the largely-white Louisiana District ministerial voting body?

My opinion?

An unqualified "no."

Now answer me this Dan.

Like the Dylan song "the times, they are a-changing."

As a young man, the UPC directory listed the Houston churches as the main stalwarts - Kilgore, Fauss, Dees, Bean and later Free, Forrest Ford, etc. etc.

Talk about "population reflection" ... now there are a ton of spanish works listed pastored by obviously hispanic pastors.

Houston is a part of the South Texas District.

My question:

Are these Houston churches and ministers full-fledged independent churches in the South Texas District and do those pastors vote in district and sectional conferences?

OR ... are they safely tucked away by the white-boy leadership as "daughter works" or "ethnic works"?

I'd find the answer to that interesting.

Many of the Spanish churches in H-Town are not daugheter works ... and they do vote if they show up.

IMO ... However, their apathy mainly results from the horrific internal circumstances of the last 10 years that has affected the Spanish churches here, and the subsequent strife that has risen among them. The things that happened among them left a power vacuum.

Many of them can't stand each other or will not fellowshp w one another.

They could become a formidable voting bloc but they either don't care anymore about the goings on or cannot agree if it's partly cloudy or partly sunny.

[timlan2057]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Many of the Spanish churches in H-Town are not daugheter works ... and they do vote if they show up.

IMO ... However, their apathy mainly results from the horrific internal circumstances of the last 10 years that has affected the Spanish churches here, and the subsequent strife that has risen among them. The things that happened among them left a power vacuum.

Many of them can't stand each other or will not fellowshp w one another.

They could become a formidable voting bloc but they either don't care anymore about the goings on or cannot agree if it's partly cloudy or partly sunny.

Gotcha.

That clears a lot up.

Sounds a lot like Alexandria, La.

The population of the city proper (about 50K) is 55 percent black.

They could very easily elect a black mayor if they would unite behind one candidate.

But not only did about four power-hungry black city councilmen and such all run for mayor and dilute the vote, apathy and ignorance kept many blacks from voting.

Of course UPC churches and pastors not getting along is not limited to the Spanish brethren.

But yes ... I envisioned them being a formidable voting bloc in the Houston Metro West and Metro East sections.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

Gotcha.

That clears a lot up.

Sounds a lot like Alexandria, La.

The population of the city proper (about 50K) is 55 percent black.

They could very easily elect a black mayor if they would unite behind one candidate.

But not only did about four power-hungry black city councilmen and such all run for mayor and dilute the vote, apathy and ignorance kept many blacks from voting.

Of course UPC churches and pastors not getting along is not limited to the Spanish brethren.

But yes ... I envisioned them being a formidable voting bloc in the Houston Metro West and Metro East sections.

I saw one district where a well qualified black minister was voted in on the Dist Board. He served a few terms but was voted out by the growing number of Hispanic ministers in the section. It was hard to say if they took a step forward or what.

I feel badly that many of the newer "ethnic" works are being steeped in the same politics that hindered growth among their white forebears. We desperately need people with wisdom and experience in leadership. Wisdom that prevents every latest fad from being voted into our constitutions, by-laws and manuals.

We need eternal principles and not trendy sloganeering and shallow manipulation.

[Praxeas]

I think it's sad though that having a black mayor or whatever is dependent on black power of uniting black voters behind a black candidate...that's racism. We are not a melting pot or multicultural when races are pitted against races...where races vote only for their own race. Be it white or whatever...races are getting the vote or not getting the vote often because of race and not because of qualification

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I think it's sad though that having a black mayor or whatever is dependent on black power of uniting black voters behind a black candidate...that's racism. We are not a melting pot or multicultural when races are pitted against races...where races vote only for their own race. Be it white or whatever...races are getting the vote or not getting the vote often because of race and not because of qualification

Well between Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton...I'd go with Barak..and I am a white guy.