Saved WithOut The Holy Ghost ?

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

What Scotty ?? No WAY..we are Apostolics and we have all the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

We have the truth market cornered !!!

Since Jesus Christ is the way,the truth and the life wouldn't one to have to be Jesus to have all of the truth ?
I'm don't have it all figured out I'm still learning.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Herein lie our differences -- we believe that in baptism we are reciting the gospel, while you believe that in baptism we are reenacting the gospel. If one understands that salvation consists of following certain qualifications to achieve acceptance with God, then New Testament texts, such as Acts 2:38, will be interpreted as steps of obedience in order to gain salvation. On the other hand, if one sees that the coming of Christ was a radical shift in God’s approach to salvation (John 1:29)...and if one sees that man’s attempt to achieve salvation through obedience to the Law was a failure (Romans 3) until God came and lived the Law perfectly in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:19)....and if one sees that only Christ is qualified before God (Matthew 3:17) through obedience to the Law (Romans 10:3-11).... then, salvation will be understood as a work performed by Christ (Hebrews 9:2-28; 10:10) and offered to man out of the grace of God (Ephesians 2:5-9), and it must be received by faith alone (Romans 4, 5). The focus will be on the greatness of the gift offered and not on the status, conditions or responses of the receiver of the gift. One will then interpret Acts 2:38 more as responses of confession than as “how to get saved.” It is a recital of what Jesus has accomplished, rather than a reenacting of some portion of Jesus’ life that we accomplish through our obedience.

Agreed ... as long as sacramentalists like TR .... believe that re-enactment, or mimicking, of the Work of the Lamb is salvational doctrine

then we must accept that infilling of the Holy Ghost and Christ's communion w/ the believer ... can only be achieved by a tongues experience demonstrating the indwelling of God's Spirit ... and hence being born of His Spirit ... the final piece to the puzzle of full salvation ... finally resurrecting w/ Christ.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Sam, lets be honest here. Has anyone ever, ever said that sinners should not read the epistles?

Why would you even distort my argument by implying that? I know of no Pentecostal ever who has ever said or implied any such thing.

There is a big distinction between saying:
the epistles were not addressed to sinners, but to saints...
versus saying
...sinners are not supposed to read the epistles.

Surely you understand that.

What is your point for bringing up that it was addressed to the church if it is not to imply that its words are not for sinners?

Acts was written to Theophilus....do you negate it because it was addressed to him?

If it is not to imply that....then what does mentioning who it was addressed to have to do with the price of chicken?

[Sam]

Anyone who has access to those old Pentecostal Outlooks,
I seem to remember Bro. Norris having an article in one of them on the "Gospels, Acts, and Epistles" division of the NT. It's too late for me to look it up so I can't say how strongly he emphasized it in that article.

This is a chart based on what he taught.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Sam

Anyone who has access to those old Pentecostal Outlooks,
I seem to remember Bro. Norris having an article in one of them on the "Gospels, Acts, and Epistles" division of the NT. It's too late for me to look it up so I can't say how strongly he emphasized it in that article.

This is a chart based on what he taught.

Surely men like Norris have distorted the view of PAJCers to the point that one book and a handful of passages takes pre-eminence in the Word of God

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Sam

Anyone who has access to those old Pentecostal Outlooks,
I seem to remember Bro. Norris having an article in one of them on the "Gospels, Acts, and Epistles" division of the NT. It's too late for me to look it up so I can't say how strongly he emphasized it in that article.

This is a chart based on what he taught.

My former pastor was aBI graduate and he taught it stron htat salvation was ONLY found in Acts. Nobody ever got saved in Epistles.

Epistles were only to the saints to teach them how to stay saved.

[freeatlast]

Br. Norris also taught a form of the light doctrine or something called the rightous the wicked and the holy

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Romans 2:4-6 "Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can’t you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin? But because you are stubborn and refuse to turn from your sin, you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself. For a day of anger is coming, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed."

Does this sound like an admonishment exclusively to believers? or is this for sinners? What Believer refuses to turn from their sin that awaits terrible punishment?

Bumperooski

[Sam]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

What Scotty ?? No WAY..we are Apostolics and we have all the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

We have the truth market cornered !!!

Well, we are Apostolics.
We're all Apostolics.


and some Apostolics believe that justification/salvation/regeneration happens before water and Spirit baptism while others believe a person is not a child of God until after water and/or Spirit baptism.

So, whether we are "one-steppers" or "two-steppers" or "three-steppers" we are all bruvvers and part of God's big family.

Like the old hymn says,

"I love you.
You love me.
We're God's great big family.
With a great big hug
and a kiss from me to you,
won't you say you love me too?"

How did the Apostle John put it?
"If you believe that Jesus is the Christ --that he is God's Son and your Savior-- then you are a child of God. And all who love the Father love his children too." 1 John 5:1

[Sam]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Br. Norris also taught a form of the light doctrine or something called the rightous the wicked and the holy

Yes, and that doctrine is believed in and taught by more Apostolics than we realize because of the far reaching influence of ABI over the years.