Saved Without A Pastor?? - Page 12

rgcraig · #**111** 12-18-2007, 04:16 PM

No onslaught from here.....

Michael Phelps · #**112** 12-18-2007, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CareyM

Do you think this is where the five-fold ministry comes in? Since they all work together (or are supposed to) for the perfecting of the saints.

Absolutely.

I strongly believe that God puts people in our lives to speak faith into us at any given time. I believe that it's good to belong to a group of believers with a man of God who can preach and teach that faith and Word.

I'm most certainly not against attending church, but I do have a problem with the concept that a person will go to hell if they don't have a pastor.

There's just no scripture to back it up.

rgcraig · #**113** 12-18-2007, 04:26 PM

Also, they won't go to hell if they have to miss a service or two either.

I really hate the pressure put on people to be there every time the doors are open. Sometimes there are just circumstances that will not allow you to be there for everything and to feel the guilt of not being there is unnecessary - IMHO.

LaVonne · #**114** 12-18-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Also, they won't go to hell if they have to miss a service or two either.

I really hate the pressure put on people to be there every time the doors are open. Sometimes there are just circumstances that will not allow you to be there for everything and to feel the guilt of not being there is unnecessary - IMHO.

Very good Renda! I am really tired of the pressure of always having to be at every single service, having to call in when you can't make it and having to have a very good excuse for it.

dizzyde · #**115** 12-18-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Ok, I'll elaborate a bit here since I have a few minutes, lol.

To say that a person has to have a pastor to be saved is to say that the pastor has power to save a person. And the scripture clearly states that we must all "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling".

To say that a person must have a pastor to hear from God is to violate Jesus statement that "The Holy Ghost will lead and guide us into ALL truth".

To say that we need to submit to a pastor in every situation would cause us sometimes to violate Peter's edict that "we ought to obey God rather than man", because sometimes the pastor feels strongly opposed to what we feel led in the Spirit to do.

Now, does God sanction pastors? Of course. And I believe in having spiritual advisors in my life.

But, in many cases in scripture, when people were seeking a word from God, He sent them to people who were NOT their pastor, i.e. Saul on the road to Damascus was sent to Ananias, who was not his pastor, nor would he become Saul's pastor.

The Ethiopian eunuch was searching for truth, and God picked Philip up and set him down to reveal truth, and then Philip was gone again.

And the list goes on and on....

I fear that many people have deified the pastorate to the point where they can't buy a home, a car, make a move, do anything without the pastor's blessing, and that's a shame.

Are there good pastors out there? Most certainly!

But, a good pastor is smart enough to know that the folks under his care can hear from God directly, and they don't need him to be saved.

Just my humble opinion.........I now anxiously await the onslaught, lol.

I respect your humble opinion! I would have to say, overall, I agree with you.

I perhaps a little more strongly than you believe that there is a need for pastoral authority in a Christians life.

Do I think that you can be saved without a pastor? I do not believe that having a pastor saves you, absolutely not. Do I believe strongly in the need to have a pastor if you are saved. Yes.

Do I believe that you are supposed to blindly follow a pastor, unquestioning and unknowingly? Unconditionally, NO. As you have stated, the Bible gives us a clear directive on our responsibility in the matter.

So, that is my humble opinion!

Michael Phelps · #**116** 12-18-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CareyM

Very good Renda! I am really tired of the pressure of always having to be at every single service, having to call in when you can't make it and having to have a very good excuse for it.

Well, if you would pray thru, and get right with God, and obey, you wouldn't have this problem!!!!!!!!!

JUST KIDDING!

Michael Phelps · #**117** 12-18-2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzyde

I respect your humble opinion! I would have to say, overall, I agree with you.

I perhaps a little more strongly than you believe that there is a need for pastoral authority in a Christians life.

Do I think that you can be saved without a pastor? I do not believe that having a pastor saves you, absolutely not. Do I believe strongly in the need to have a pastor if you are saved. Yes.

Do I believe that you are supposed to blindly follow a pastor, unquestioning and unknowingly? Unconditionally, NO. As you have stated, the Bible gives us a clear directive on our responsibility in the matter.

So, that is my humble opinion!

Very well said, Dizzy!

dizzyde · #**118** 12-18-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Very well said, Dizzy!

Well thanks, kind sir! lol!

LaVonne · #**119** 12-18-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Well, if you would pray thru, and get right with God, and obey, you wouldn't have this problem!!!!!!!!!

JUST KIDDING!

I know...I have a problem with submission...

LadyChocolate · #**120** 12-18-2007, 04:47 PM

1 Timothy 2:15 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

I've given birth so I am saved! With or without a pastor, one stepper or 3 stepper. in a 3 legged race with high heels on... I am eternally secure............

well, if I take this scripture out of context! lololol