What Constitutes Discipleship?

[Aquila]

I think we should admit that not all will be saved. Broad and wide is the way that leads to destruction and many there be that go in there at. However, straight and narrow is the way that leadeth unto righteousness and few there be that find it.

We can establish discipleship friendly models and programs...and still we will only reach those few souls who sincerely desire salvation.

After we have done our best to create an environment for discipleship...there has to be a desire in the heart of the disciple. That's the one thing we can't give them.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

It is hard to find people willing to be discipled...cross them and see how much they want to learn...

Sis. Alvear,

Disciplining begins long before actual conversion and many people are turned off when they are linked with someone to disciple them because that isn't how it is done. People don't like to feel that they are somehow missing the mark on some things.

They that hunger and thirst after rigteousness will be filled. Disciplining is not about teaching them to fit in to our acceptable style of dress and worship so they can "fit in" to our churches. Disciplining is about being a Christ follower not a denomination, organization, or church community follower.

The ones 'discipled' by my mother are still in love with Jesus, although not necessarily UPCI churches. Mom taught them how to have a relationship with God for themselves and how to pray, read & study the word, and live for God day by day.

Our churches have as many going out as coming in and can't retain those that come and receive the Holy Ghost in their assemblies because the church has expectations as to how they should line up; i.e., dress, socialize, work in the church, and who they should hang with.

The best soul-winners are new converts who don't know how it is 'supposed' to be done.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Sister Alvear]

true dear friend...
the work of helping someone else is a such a gift...May the Lord help us all to form relationships with hungry souls.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Sis. Alvear,

Disciplining begins long before actual conversion and many people are turned off when they are linked with someone to disciple them because that isn't how it is done. People don't like to feel that they are somehow missing the mark on some things.

They that hunger and thirst after rigteousness will be filled. Disciplining is not about teaching them to fit in to our acceptable style of dress and worship so they can "fit in" to our churches. Disciplining is about being a Christ follower not a denomination, organization, or church community follower.

The ones 'discipled' by my mother are still in love with Jesus, although not necessarily UPCI churches. Mom taught them how to have a relationship with God for themselves and how to pray, read & study the word, and live for God day by day.

Our churches have as many going out as coming in and can't retain those that come and receive the Holy Ghost in their assemblies because the church has expectations as to how they should line up; i.e., dress, socialize, work in the church, and who they should hang with.

The best soul-winners are new converts who don't know how it is 'supposed' to be done.

Blessings, Rhoni

Rhonda, I disagree with the first statement...

Though there may be some who are courted or discipled along the way to salvation, it just doesn't always happen that way.

A disciple is one who is a follower, adherent, devotee, student.

Those whom the Lord called "disciples" made sacrifices of separation, but only after they were already followers.

They willingly laid down their nets and became fishers of men.

We disciple by example and showing them that following their Born Again experience there is a godly life to be lived.

This can be done one on one, as your mother experienced, but in that we must be cautious.

The church is STILL the best place to make disciples of Christ, teaching them what saith the Lord...IMHO...

[nathan_slatter]

Far be it from me to actually have an opinion -- but that has never stopped me before...

I think the act of discipleship begins first with the act of community. You can not disciple someone unless they FIRST trust you. And they will not trust you unless you care about them, unequivocally and without strings attached. For me, I've only recently came across a church that has the same vision for community and church that I have -- a few differences as with any group with more than one person -- but I can deal with that.

They have a single service on Sunday's and home groups during the weeks. And that is just a few things that they are doing -- their idea is to turn the church into a place where people of all sort gather. And, in fact, their concept is if those who gather are only Christian -- then they have failed in what God has called them to do.

And if you have interacted with me in any way, you know that I could care less to enter the modern tradition of church. I see no benefit in it -- or at least the modern tradition that I was raised in, yet I find myself drawn to this place because they put people above religiosity and in my experience, that is impressive and something that I can get behind. They are building community and allowing all things to grow from there.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Barb

Rhonda, I disagree with the first statement...

Though there may be some who are courted or discipled along the way to salvation, it just doesn't always happen that way.

A disciple is one who is a follower, adherent, devotee, student.

Those whom the Lord called "disciples" made sacrifices of separation, but only after they were already followers.

They willingly laid down their nets and became fishers of men.

A disciple is a "follower". Part of what was so amazing about the situation with Jesus and the disciples is that they were willing to leave everything and follow a man they didn't really even know. There was something so compelling about Jesus! Even while they were following Him, they still didn't really understand who He was and what He was all about.

Faith and obedience are so much a part of discipleship. You can't be a true disciple without those elements. And there will be COST involved in becoming a true disciple of Jesus Christ.

The discples soon discovered that and so have those of us who have also "left all" or been willing to do so in order follow Jesus and live out His call on our lives.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Felicity

A disciple is a "follower". Part of what was so amazing about the situation with Jesus and the disciples is that they were willing to leave everything and follow a man they didn't really even know. There was something so compelling about Jesus! Even while they were following Him, they still didn't really understand who He was and what He was all about.

Faith and obedience are so much a part of discipleship. You can't be a true disciple without those elements. And there will be COST involved in becoming a true disciple of Jesus Christ.

The discples soon discovered that and so have those of us who have also "left all" or been willing to do so in order follow Jesus and live out His call on our lives.

Amen...we may befriend and even teach home Bible studies in order to lead folks to the Cross, but disciples are already followers.

The cost of following is a good point...

Some may want the name but want to skirt by without paying the price, while still others upon hearing the cost of discipleship are not willing to make the necessary sacrifices.

But then there are souls who will forsake all and go...

How far will one go for the sake of the call?! No one can answer that but the individual.

But this we know...we trust in One we cannot see that He will lead us on a road that is not clearly visible simply because He asks us to...

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Barb

Rhonda, I disagree with the first statement...

Though there may be some who are courted or discipled along the way to salvation, it just doesn't always happen that way.

A disciple is one who is a follower, adherent, devotee, student.

Those whom the Lord called "disciples" made sacrifices of separation, but only after they were already followers.

They willingly laid down their nets and became fishers of men.

We disciple by example and showing them that following their Born Again experience there is a godly life to be lived.

I think that it’s important to note that when Jesus called the disciples he led and taught them for three and a half years…yet even up until the point of his death they still didn’t understand all the things he was teaching them. Also they had yet to receive the Holy Ghost at Pentecost. This was all pre-New Testament salvation discipling. It wasn’t until after Christ rose from the dead and opened their eyes that they received a deep understanding of the truth. Then he admonished them to go to Pentecost until they received power from on high. The point is that Christ discipled the disciples for 3 and a half years before they experienced Pentecost.

Also it is important to note that most of Christ’s discipling of the disciples took place in informal conversations in homes, over dinner tables, on the road, in the markets, in the fields, on the mount side, in the garden, etc. Discipleship is far more than just a religious class held during service times. That’s part of our problem. We offer classes and programs in our efforts to disciple…but we’re not teaching someone who to be an HVAC technician…we’re teaching everyday spiritual disciplines that require everyday interaction to learn rather it be prior to salvation or after salvation:

Acts 2:42-47
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in
breaking of bread, and in prayers.
And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

We see that in the beginning they not only met in the temple…but they broke bread from house to house. They shared their entire lives with one another. As you can see even the provision of material goods and needs was an essential element in their fellowship. Christian discipleship didn’t take place in the Temple…it took place in the context of Christian fellowship. The true purpose of fellowship is discipling, not entertainment.

This can be done one on one, as your mother experienced, but in that we must be cautious.

What is there to be cautious about? I’d like to take this opportunity to make a statement I love; there’s no such thing as a cautious Christian.

The church is STILL the best place to make disciples of Christ, teaching them what saith the Lord...IMHO...

I think that’s faulty theology. The “church” isn’t a “place”. It’s a people. The church can meet in a big building, a living room, a park, a Starbuck’s, a book store, a courthouse square, a back yard, down by the riverside, in a barn, in the brush arbors, old textile mills, under bridges…you name it and Christians who really know Jesus can “church” there.

The myth prevails…bring them to an impressive building (that we’ve grown to believe is a necessity) and sit them in classes and call it discipleship.

Ditch the focus on luxurious buildings, padded pews, tall steeples, stained glass windows, polished classrooms, and just let people into your life. Open your homes and your lives up and mentor others in what it means to live a Christian life. Hold Bible studies in the park, in the malls, or at the local coffee shop. Let new believers see first hand what it means to be a Christian OUTSIDE of the sanctuary. Let them see you talk to others about Christ.

You know…our founders gathered wherever they could find a roof and just taught Bible without programs or gimmicks. We’ve become so “institutionalized”.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by nathan_slatter

Far be it from me to actually have an opinion -- but that has never stopped me before...

I think the act of discipleship begins first with the act of community. You can not disciple someone unless they FIRST trust you. And they will not trust you unless you care about them, unequivocally and without strings attached. For me, I've only recently came across a church that has the same vision for community and church that I have -- a few differences as with any group with more than one person -- but I can deal with that.

They have a single service on Sunday's and home groups during the weeks. And that is just a few things that they are doing -- their idea is to turn the church into a place where people of all sort gather. And, in fact, their concept is if those who gather are only Christian -- then they have failed in what God has called them to do.

And if you have interacted with me in any way, you know that I could care less to enter the modern tradition of church. I see no benefit in it -- or at least the modern tradition that I was raised in, yet I find myself drawn to this place because they put people above religiosity and in my experience, that is impressive and something that I can get behind. They are building community and allowing all things to grow from there.

Thank-you! Just what I said

Blessings, Rhoni

[Sister Alvear]

I love the church (not the building) It was the thoughts of the early christians that we are a family. UNfortuantly the family has become so divided that we little resembled the first church...However not to be discouraged they too faced their problems...I am of Paul..o notice this passage 1 Cor 1:10-13

10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?
NIV

So in spite of being the early church they too suffered and more holy attitudes was among them...I am more spiritual because I know so and so..or so and so baptized me...

However there has and will always be a people that are NOT affected by titles, politics, impressive material things and it is this people I want to be around and be a part of...

A sense of real community...a sense of caring one for another...