Forgiveness prior to baptism

[Adino]

LOL... Apprehended, dude, what are you talking about?

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Adino

LOL... Apprehended, dude, what are you talking about?

Kind of complicated, huh?

[Truly Blessed]

Saved, and then baptized in water and with the Holy Ghost. That's what I was taught growing up in a Full Gospel Church. After 40 years of searching the Scriptures for myself, I've found nothing to convince me that the Bible teaches anything different. Identity with Jesus Christ in water baptism and the anointing of the Holy Ghost is for those who by grace through faith have become a child of God. I appreciate what Adino has been posting here.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Saved, and then baptized in water and with the Holy Ghost. That's what I was taught growing up in a Full Gospel Church. After 40 years of searching the Scriptures for myself, I've found nothing to convince me that the Bible teaches anything different. Identity with Jesus Christ in water baptism and the anointing of the Holy Ghost is for those who by grace through faith have become a child of God. I appreciate what Adino has been posting here.

Amen.

[Apprehended]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Saved,

Of course. When all sin is rolled away at an altar in deep contrition for those sins, calling on the name of the Lord to deliver from both the presence and power of sin, one is truly "saved," from that burden of guilt. This is true by the very definiton of the word "saved." This is only the beginning of repentance..

and then baptized in water

Yes, indeed. After one is truly "saved" from sin, its guilt, power and presence, then of course there is the natural progression to water in the name of Jesus.

and with the Holy Ghost.

After one is saved from the burden of sin, one is promised through faith the baptism of Spirit.

Saved, then water and Spirit baptized seems to me to be the message of Acts 2:38. Indeed, that was what I was taught too. Seems right to me.

If sins guilt and stain is not removed until one is actually water baptized in the name of Jesus, then what good is the washing of water by the WORD? How is it possible that thousands and yea, millions are filled with the precious holy Ghost even before a TOE is baptized in water in the name of Jesus.

Millions of Trinitarians have been filled...my wife was one of them. She would consider someone a rank idiot that would try to tell her that she did not have the Holy Ghost before she went to the water in the name of Jesus...which she did when she saw the light of it.

The hard-core three steppers who insist on a "formula," standing strictly on their interpretation of Acts 2:38 cannot allow for someone to be filled with step three before step two. But the grace of God has proven them wrong millions of times as evidenced by the millions who have received step three before step two.

My bible speaks of those who form the formulas. First they will give you a three step formula. Next, they will give you a baptismal formula for the infilling of the Holy Ghost. Then they will give you a formula for the manner of living...most of which is debated within their own formula building ranks. My bible speaks of those who have a FORM(ula) of godliness...

But, even according to Acts 2:38, the first word in "the formula" is REPENT...step one according to them. Even this word is terribly misunderstood, thinking that it is a one time trip to the altar. Not so! Repentance is more than just a one time change of mind or direction in life. Many who have "repented" returned to their old lifestyle even after having received the Holy Ghost, proving that they had not repented in the beginning. Repentance is a PERMANENT turning toward God from the world...a lifestyle that must be practiced DAILY.

So, the hard-core "formula" as formulated in the minds of "form of godliness" folk have proven to be wrong due to their own interpretation of Acts 2:38. I've said it before and bears repeating. Acts 2:38 is neither the beginning of SALVATION nor is it the end.

[Truly Blessed]

[QUOTE=Apprehended;337743]

Of course. When all sin is rolled away at an altar in deep contrition for those sins, calling on the name of the Lord to deliver from both the presence and power of sin, one is truly "saved," from that burden of guilt. This is true by the very definiton of the word "saved." This is only the beginning of repentance..



Yes, indeed. After one is truly "saved" from sin, its guilt, power and presence, then of course there is the natural progression to water in the name of Jesus.



After one is saved from the burden of sin, one is promised through faith the baptism of Spirit.

Saved, then water and Spirit baptized seems to me to be the message of Acts 2:38. Indeed, that was what I was taught too. Seems right to me.

If sins guilt and stain is not removed until one is actually water baptized in the name of Jesus, then what good is the washing of water by the WORD? How is it possible that thousands and yea, millions are filled with the precious holy Ghost even before a TOE is baptized in water in the name of Jesus.

Millions of Trinitarians have been filled...my wife was one of them. She would consider someone a rank idiot that would try to tell her that she did not have the Holy Ghost before she went to the water in the name of Jesus...which she did when she saw the light of it.

The hard-core three steppers who insist on a "formula," standing strictly on their interpretation of Acts 2:38 cannot allow for someone to be filled with step three before step two. But the grace of God has proven them wrong millions of times as evidenced by the millions who have received step three before step two.

My bible speaks of those who form the formulas. First they will give you a three step formula. Next, they will give you a baptismal formula for the infilling of the Holy Ghost. Then they will give you a formula for the manner of living...most of which is debated within their own formula building ranks. My bible speaks of those who have a FORM(ula) of godliness...

But, even according to Acts 2:38, the first word in "the formula" is REPENT...step one according to them. Even this word is terribly misunderstood, thinking that it is a one time trip to the altar. Not so! Repentance is more than just a one time change of mind or direction in life. Many who have "repented" returned to their old lifestyle even after having received the Holy Ghost, proving that they had not repented in the beginning. Repentance is a PERMANENT turning toward God from the world...a lifestyle that must be practiced DAILY.

So, the hard-core "formula" as formulated in the minds of "form of godliness" folk have proven to be wrong due to their own interpretation of Acts 2:38. I've said it before and bears repeating. Acts 2:38 is neither the beginning of SALVATION nor is it the end.

As one who was baptized with the Holy Ghost before I was baptized, I too have a problem with someone who would want me to believe God gave the earnest of my inheritance before I even became His child or before my sins were even forgiven.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

As one who was baptized with the Holy Ghost before I was baptized, I too have a problem with someone who would want me to believe God gave the earnest of my inheritance before I even became His child or before my sins were even forgiven.

Good thought, indeed...

1. Since the scriptures cannot lie...

2. Since the Holy Ghost is given to them that obey Him...(Acts 5:32)

3. Since many have received HGB before water baptism...

4. Since God will not live in an unclean temple...

Who would be the most likely candidate for error:

1. Jesus?

2. Apostles?

3. The Word of God?

4. Rev. Freddie Frack Foggybottom and his interpretation of Acts 2:38 who disagrees with all three above? Never mind. Since he has a "formula" according to his own proud interpretation of Acts 2:38, (step one, step two and then step three) he cannot be wrong in his own mind.

I had a very interesting experience that I shall never forget. I became acquainted with a really "on fire" young man that had the Holy Ghost and seems to have a deep burden for the lost.

One day he says to me, "Let's go win some souls today." I was in very much agreement with that. Since he was very much experienced in that department, I thought that I would just tag along and observe. We went everywhere "winning souls."

We visited Malls, Parks and hospitals "winning souls" everwhere we went. He was really bold and on fire. He did not let anything stop him from approaching people and even backing them up into a corner if need be.

At the end of the day, he counted 17 souls (if I remember correctly) that was "won" to the Lord. In each case, it was a short witness of Jesus, a confession of faith and a sinner's prayer that followed. Each case was a cold and almost mechanical response some of which I believe was done just to get rid of the guy. Though he counted 17, I have my doubts on all but one...But then, I am no judge of the other 16.

This one, I shall never forget. We met this young couple in the park. After leading them through the sinners' prayer, the young lady went into a deep travail as her boyfriend watched. At first her very appearance was dark so obviously deeply stained with sin. As she prayed and asked God to forgive her, she lit up like a light bulb. Seldom have I seen such an obvious transformation upon her countenance. There was a witness in my soul that the stone was rolled away, she came forth a new creature in Christ. No, she did not received the Holy Ghost as evidenced by other tongues, but she had a deep genuine experience of salvation in the park. We spend more than two hours with her, being much longer than any of the rest. There was no doubt or question in regards to her conversion which was deep and genuine.

Now, was the girl saved?

Yes, in one sense of the word. She was delivered (saved/sozo) from the presence and power of sin. She was deeply and brightly converted.

In another sense of the word, NO! In that sense, neither are you and I "saved." Jesus said, "He that ENDURETH unto the end, the same shall be saved." Her end did not come in the park. We have not yet endured unto the end. Not everyone that left Egypt entered in.

I think that if we were to understand a few definitions, there would be much less misunderstandings...