Water Baptism.....Just What Is It For?

[Apprehended]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I understand that we use the word "saved" in a way that it is not meant to be used. And I do understand that the word saved comes from the greek word "Sozo" which means the healing of the whole man (body soul, and spirit). But I do not believe one is ready to stand before God in an unregenerated (not born again) state.

Neither do I believe that one is ready to stand before God in an unregenerated condition. Sozo does not neccessarily have to mean that deliverance must be from all three conditions to be sozo. For instance, one can be healed in their body (sozo) without having a mental problem healed, even though sozo is available for what ails ya.

IMO, The verse in James in context is not for a "non-born again person", but one that is born again, yet has allowed the enemy to inflict themn with sickness, with the possibility that the opening occurred through their sinning.

So you think that healing is for only those who have experience Acts 2:38? That is not my belief at all. Experience by the thousands have proven to me otherwise. I've seen rank sinners get healed just sitting in the chairs, hearing and believing the Word preached.

The truth is, the prayer of faith will indeed save (deliver) the sick and if they have sinned, they will be forgiven without stipulation in regards to whether or not they have obeyed Acts 2:38. The scripture is quite plain. Not only that, Ive seen it many, many times. I've seen the grace and goodness of a good God in action...live and in color.

I remember Jack Coe was such a man of faith that he did not take time praying for every person in those long lines. He would go down the line almost as fast as he could jerking people out of wheel chairs, grabbing crutches, breaking eye glasses, punching tumors, and squeezing goiters...on and on. One old sinner man started jumping up and down and hollering, "I can hear, I can hear." Brother Coe said, Of course you can hear, what did you expect?" He said, "I just got in line to help my mother stand here but you jerked out my hearng aid and instantly my ears popped open." LOL... Sort of dangerous to get around men of faith...

Yes, that old sinner man got the double cure. Healing for his hearing and forgiveness for his sins too...according to scripture.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Neither do I believe that one is ready to stand before God in an unregenerated condition. Sozo does not neccessarily have to mean that deliverance must be from all three conditions to be sozo. For instance, one can be healed in their body (sozo) without having a mental problem healed, even though sozo is available for what ails ya.



So you think that healing is for only those who have experience Acts 2:38? That is not my belief at all. Experience by the thousands have proven to me otherwise. I've seen rank sinners get healed just sitting in the chairs, hearing and believing the Word preached.

The truth is, the prayer of faith will indeed save (deliver) the sick and if they have sinned, they will be forgiven without stipulation in regards to whether or not they have obeyed Acts 2:38. The scripture is quite plain. Not only that, Ive seen it many, many times. I've seen the grace and goodness of a good God in action...live and in color.

I remember Jack Coe was such a man of faith that he did not take time praying for every person in those long lines. He would go down the line almost as fast as he could jerking people out of wheel chairs, grabbing crutches, breaking eye glasses, punching tumors, and squeezing goiters...on and on. One old sinner man started jumping up and down and hollering, "I can hear, I can hear." Brother Coe said, Of course you can hear, what did you expect?" He said, "I just got in line to help my mother stand here but you jerked out my hearng aid and instantly my ears popped open." LOL... Sort of dangerous to get around men of faith...

Yes, that old sinner man got the double cure. Healing for his hearing and forgiveness for his sins too...according to scripture.

I think you misunderstood my thoughts, or I did not convey them clear enough. Healing is available to anyone that will believe and receive it. I just believe the context of James chapter 5 is addressing born again believers, and not those that are not in the Church. I could be wrong, but that is my view at present. There are other verses that give room for healing to those outside the church.

Jam 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and [your] nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
Jam 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
Jam 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jam 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Jam 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I think you misunderstood my thoughts, or I did not convey them clear enough. Healing is available to anyone that will believe and receive it. I just believe the context of James chapter 5 is addressing born again believers, and not those that are not in the Church. I could be wrong, but that is my view at present. There are other verses that give room for healing to those outside the church.

Jam 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and [your] nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
Jam 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
Jam 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jam 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Jam 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Thanks for clarifying that...

Now to the bolded portion of your statement. I agree that there are those scriptures. So, if a sinner is healed in his body that is also "sozo." Which is to say "saved." Did not Jesus promise to forgive all who came to him? To forgive sin is to roll away the guilt of sin. That is also (sozo) "saved."

ARe you saying that Jesus will not forgive a sinner of his sins who comes to Him confessing and asking for such a release and burden of guilt until he takes all three steps? If so, here we must agree to disagree. I believe the worst sinner who ever lived can come to Jesus and be "saved," (sozo) from the most wicked sin and cleansed from the deepest stain by the blood of the cross by confessing and asking for that pardon and cleansing.

I do not believe that Jesus refuses any who come to him in faith believing. He will save (sozo/deliver) all who come to Him.