God IS Pouring Out His Spirit Upon ALL Flesh--Not Just Oneness Flesh

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Okay..., God has poured out his spirit on non-Oneness flesh for years. This is nothing new. We all know that. I've never heard anyone say if you're not oneness you cant get the Holy Ghost.

Fact is though, Oneness is still truth. And Jesus name baptism is still truth.

Jesus said the Holy Ghost "will lead you into all truth" (John 16:13). Being in a church that preaches full truth is not in itself a prerequisite for receiving the Holy Ghost. Repentance and faith are the prerequisites. Now these people they are now in a position where hopefully they will allow themselves to be led by the Holy Spirit into full truth... rather than hold on to man-made traditions (which, unfortunately, is what happens much of the time).

If they receive the Holy Ghost but still continue praying to Mary, baptizing in titles, etc.. they remain in error, and have not allowed the Holy Ghost to lead them into truth.

All churches have man made traditions and all churches have false in them.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Walkbyfaith7

All churches have man made traditions and all churches have false in them.

Good grief.

Tell me what common "man made traditions" you know of in the Apostolic movement that are on par with the ones I mentioned (baptizing in the titles instead of the name... and praying to Mary)


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Originally Posted by TRFrance

Good grief.

Tell me what "man made traditions" you know of in the Apostolic movement that are on par with the ones I mentioned (baptizing in the titles instead of the name... and praying to Mary)


....

1.) Saying "praying through". The Holy Ghost was never prayed through to an individual. This is man made.

2.) Pastoral authoritarian: a pastor in oneness churches will usually set rules for which you can not be on a platform and they all vary from church to church. These are ALL man made traditions. If they were of God, they would all be the same.

3.) Pastoral: Some oneness pastors say the gifts of the Spirit are for the ministry to supervise. This is a man made tradition lie from hell. The gifts were given to the body of Christ, the church of the Living God.

4.) Afraid of praying to the Father: You must only pray to Jesus and in Jesus name. Biblically, Jesus taught the disciples to pray, "Our Father". Not taught in everyone oneness church I know but many.

5.) Holy Ghost laughter: this is a man made tradition.

6.) Having church on Sunday. Sunday was the day where people worshiped the God of the Sun. This is a man made tradition.

I could go on and on and probably if I really spent some time thinking about the different traditions you would be amazed at how many there really is.

This is just off the top of my head.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Walkbyfaith7

1.) Saying "praying through". The Holy Ghost was never prayed through to an individual. This is man made.

2.) Pastoral authoritarian: a pastor in oneness churches will usually set rules for which you can not be on a platform and they all vary from church to church. These are ALL man made traditions. If they were of God, they would all be the same.

3.) Pastoral: Some oneness pastors say the gifts of the Spirit are for the ministry to supervise. This is a man made tradition lie from hell. The gifts were given to the body of Christ, the church of the Living God.

4.) Afraid of praying to the Father: You must only pray to Jesus and in Jesus name. Biblically, Jesus taught the disciples to pray, "Our Father". Not taught in everyone oneness church I know but many.

5.) Holy Ghost laughter: this is a man made tradition.

6.) Having church on Sunday. Sunday was the day where people worshiped the God of the Sun. This is a man made tradition.

I could go on and on and probably if I really spent some time thinking about the different traditions you would be amazed at how many there really is.

This is just off the top of my head.

They're indeed off the top of your head. I must say I believe you, because your responses don't seem like a well thought-out response to my question. You seem to have just thrown those out there just to have a rebuttal of some kind.

Holy Ghost laughter is more of a charismatic practice than apostolic. I've never heard any apostolic church or pastor teach or advocate this. Even in the charismatic movement, "holy laughter" is not that widespread, but it widely frowned upon.

Afraid of praying to the father? Dont know where you heard that. Again, this is not common Apostolic teaching.

Pastoral authority/ authority over the operation of gifts of the spirit... even if pastoral abuse or misuse of authority takes place, that is common is a lot of churches, and is not exclusive to Apostolic churches. And do you consider that to be on par with praying to Mary, which is borderline IDOLATRY?? Spare us.

Going to church on Sunday? The bible never specifies any particular day for going to church. Sunday is as good as any other day. Even for Apostolic churches that have services on Sunday.. you're missing something here... Worship on Sunday is not in disobedience to any scriptural command.Baptism in titles IS. I'm assuming you know that baptism is to be done in/into the NAME (not titles) ... as Jesus instructed, and which the Apostles and first century churches practiced. Churches that refuse to baptize in Jesus' name are in disobedience to the Word of God. Going to church on Sunday is not.


And you think encouraging someone to "pray through" to receive the Holy Ghost (which often leads to them receiving it) is on par with bowing down to a statue of Mary and other saints and praying to them?? If you seriously really believe that, then you really can't be considered credible in this discussion.

Seems like you might have some unresolved "issues" with some Apostolic churches you've encountered in the past. If that's so, I do hope and pray that the Lord helps you get over them.
Like I said, your anti-Apostolic bias seems to be seriously clouding your judgment here.


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[nwlife]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Good grief.

Tell me what common "man made traditions" you know of in the Apostolic movement that are on par with the ones I mentioned (baptizing in the titles instead of the name... and praying to Mary)


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How about the requirement that men have to remove a hat inorder to pray...

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Tell me what common "man made traditions" you know of in the Apostolic movement that are on par with the ones I mentioned (baptizing in the titles instead of the name... and praying to Mary)
....

Originally Posted by nwlife

How about the requirement that men have to remove a hat inorder to pray...

Good grief. Is that the best you can come up with? Please.
You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here aren't you?

First of all, I don't know about "requiring men to remove their hat in order to pray". Never seen that specifically required "to pray". But I do know in apostolic churches men are expected not to have their hats on in the sanctuary or during church services. Big difference there. And that's a tradition, but A) its not doctrinal in nature a are the 2 practices I mentioned previously and B) its not in disobedience to any scripture!!. Besides, its a common "church tradition", not just apostolic churches.

But lets get serious here. You think asking men to take off their hats in church is on par with praying to Mary? Get real.

[nwlife]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Good grief. Is that the best you can come up with? Please.
You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here aren't you?

First of all, I don't know about "requiring men to remove their hat in order to pray". Never seen that specifically required "to pray". But I do know in apostolic churches men are expected not to have their hats on in the sanctuary or during church services. Big difference there. And that's a tradition, but A) its not doctrinal in nature a are the 2 practices I mentioned previously and B) its not in disobedience to any scripture!!. Besides, its a common "church tradition", not just apostolic churches.

But lets get serious here. You think asking men to take off their hats in church is on par with praying to Mary? Get real.

You have no idea how many times I hear that same remark from people, and especially over the pulpits. And yes, I have heard it in oneness churches (organizational and independents) preached from Mississppi, to NewMexio, texas, colorado and Utah. There are many who do make a doctrine out of it and do equate it to praying to idols.


ahh... and there is another, that is a direct decendant from the catholic church....When I have had been called into pastor's office to "confess" what I had done wrong. And I have seen many times people called into offices to "confess" their so called sins to the pastor. I have even seen a few pastors take was was "confessed" in private and preach about it in public.

And there is the deal about obeying the pastor no matter what he says, all under the saying "touch not my annointed". I am beginning to see it spring up with a vengence inside our ranks again. (while I don't say the pastor isn't to be obeyed, or respected, for he is, but he isn't the almighty, and not the person who determines my destiny. If I want someone to have that level of control over my life, I would join the catholic church.)

Originally Posted by nwlife

You have no idea how many times I hear that same remark from people, and especially over the pulpits. And yes, I have heard it in oneness churches (organizational and independents) preached from Mississppi, to NewMexio, texas, colorado and Utah. There are many who do make a doctrine out of it and do equate it to praying to idols.


ahh... and there is another, that is a direct decendant from the catholic church....When I have had been called into pastor's office to "confess" what I had done wrong. And I have seen many times people called into offices to "confess" their so called sins to the pastor. I have even seen a few pastors take was was "confessed" in private and preach about it in public.

And there is the deal about obeying the pastor no matter what he says, all under the saying "touch not my annointed". I am beginning to see it spring up with a vengence inside our ranks again. (while I don't say the pastor isn't to be obeyed, or respected, for he is, but he isn't the almighty, and not the person who determines my destiny. If I want someone to have that level of control over my life, I would join the catholic church.)

If you disagree with the Pastors teaching that is sin you know
Even if there is no bible to back it he has superior spiritual knowledge.