The UPCI OFFERING BENEFITS TO ITS MEMBERS

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by Dora

Is it finally going to happen? Do you think the UPCI will finally step up and offer a benefits package to its ministers including health/life insurance, 401k, retirement support, pensions?

Do you think several Tulsa recruits could be persuaded to stay with the mothership if they were offered benefits?

Why are elderly UPCI preachers allowed to waste away without financial support in their senior years after all that they have contributed?

Why do preacher's wives and children have to go without insurance because their husband don't have "company" health insurance?

What is your financial plan to make all of this appear? Is the health insurance premiums going to come from ministerial dues, district tithes, maybe Sheaves for Christ? A 401K requires the minister to participate, not just "the company." I just want to know where you are going to get this money.

[Dora]

Originally Posted by TrmptPraise

What is your financial plan to make all of this appear? Is the health insurance premiums going to come from ministerial dues, district tithes, maybe Sheaves for Christ? A 401K requires the minister to participate, not just "the company." I just want to know where you are going to get this money.

I'm no financial guru. I'm asking the peeps if this could ever be a possibility.

Where would they get the funds to do this? The ministers would most likely have to pay into the deal in order to partake.

Anybody have a viable plan?

[Hoovie]

I guess I don't understand why the UPCI should automatically be responsible for minister's health insurance.

I own a business and pay for my own health insurance. It comes directly from my salary.

If the church one is serving provides health, 401k, and IRA plans - great, if not, do it yourself. I am sorry that many have failed to plan, it is sad and certainly not limited to preachers.

I still do not see why there should be a guaranteed entitlement.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by TrmptPraise

What is your financial plan to make all of this appear? Is the health insurance premiums going to come from ministerial dues, district tithes, maybe Sheaves for Christ? A 401K requires the minister to participate, not just "the company." I just want to know where you are going to get this money.

Right there are no "free" entitlements. While group insurance costs less in therory it is not always true.

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by Dora

I'm no financial guru. I'm asking the peeps if this could ever be a possibility.

Where would they get the funds to do this? The ministers would most likely have to pay into the deal in order to partake.

Anybody have a viable plan?

My point exactly. One of my best friends does this on a regular basis for evangelists, ministers, and pastors on a regular basis. There are certified financial planners throughout the organization that provide the very services you describe, getting them group rates on health insurance, making retirement decisions based on their ministerial income, setting up college funds and retirement funds through the private sector. Creating an in-house plan would likely be more restrictive in its options for the minister, generate more administrative costs for the UPC, and would be less desirable option to what the minister could get by dropping by his local CFP office.

Investing is a serious decision and should not be solely made on the basis of a forum post. Please read and understand the complete forum syllabus prior to making such a decision.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Dora

When a pastor founds a church and works to take it from fledgling stage to fully operating and thriving work then a younger preacher comes and takes over the operations of the church, shouldn't the younger pastor ensure that the founding pastor is taken care of in their waning years? Wouldn't that be the appropriate and right thing to do?

(Especially when the promise is made publicly to support the founding pastor until death.)

You are correct, of course. However this does point out the complexity of the issue. In your earlier posts you mentioned a benefits package offered by the national/international org. The UPC is made up of autonomous churches and ministers. To address the issues you've raised it really is best to address it on the local level.

When a local congregation or a new pastor takes upon themselves the promise to support the retiring pastor, then yes they should follow through. Usually the monies involved are in some sort of tax exempt structure that would prevent the "new guy" from interfering with the distribution without incurring huge penalties and perhaps criminal prosecution.

If you're not dealing with a savings type of a setting, but rather a promise to provide a "salary" or living expenses from the church's regular income then things get trickier. Was there a contract or other legally binding document that describes this arrangement? If so, the any disagreement can be settled in court if need be. Was it just a "verbal agreement?" It may still be binding, but the case is harder.

Is a "new guy" responsible for taking care of all the "old timers?" Ideally, yes! Legally? No, not always.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Dora

I'm no financial guru. I'm asking the peeps if this could ever be a possibility.

Where would they get the funds to do this? The ministers would most likely have to pay into the deal in order to partake.

Anybody have a viable plan?

The present "entrepreneurial" system works, sort of (please note: "sort of"). One church where I had worked, the pastor and his wife were covered by a health insurance plan paid for by the church. I (the only other full time staff) was covered by my wife's health insurance from her job.

To ask the church to provide me with what I was already getting would have involved the church paying much more than the premium we paid to my wife's employer's plan. Since the church was the goal of all of our collective activities we often discussed things in terms of "What will be the least burden on the church and the saints?" This was a medium to larger sized UPC church and yet no one was living even close to "riches."

[SoCaliUPC]

At the end of the day, the UPC does not write the checks for its ministers. They are only the licensing body for ministers...not their employers.

I think it is up to the individual church to make sure their pastor and his family (children UP TO 18!) have health care and contribute into some type of retirement for them. They work for the church and the church should do this for them. I do not think it is the UPCI's responsibility to do so. They are not the employers of these ministers.

[Cindy]

There are some pastors out there that get little or no tithes.

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by SoCaliUPC

At the end of the day, the UPC does not write the checks for its ministers. They are only the licensing body for ministers...not their employers.

Oh no, now they're union! J/K

pelathais & SoCaliUPC, correct me if I am wrong, don't I remember "back in the day" some UPC certified financial planners used to go around and counsel on these issues? My memory fails me, but I do seem to remember either that.

Or maybe it was "Bro. "So&So" is in the district preaching and he happens to be a CFP. He is offering a workshop on insert title here"