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  #1  
Old 01-17-2008, 08:52 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Why would you want to be there when it happens?
Because I would want to watch.
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Because I would want to watch.
I don't know how invasive a surgical procedure that would be.
I would guess it would not be any worse than drawing blood for testing.

I have survived quadruple bypass surgery (1995) plus a couple of other surgeries (1990 and 2004) so I don't think that implanting an id chip would be much compared to those.
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2008, 09:33 PM
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I don't know how invasive a surgical procedure that would be.
I would guess it would not be any worse than drawing blood for testing.

I have survived quadruple bypass surgery (1995) plus a couple of other surgeries (1990 and 2004) so I don't think that implanting an id chip would be much compared to those.
They inject it into the back of your right arm. It does not go into your hand or forehead. If the government made a law against you practicing Christianity what would be your recourse?
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
...If the government made a law against you practicing Christianity what would be your recourse?
Then I would have to follow the example of Peter and others who said, "We ought to obey God rather than men" Acts 5:29

In my opinion, a Christian is to be a law-abiding citizen and nobody should be able to find anything in him which is contrary to the laws of this country and local laws where he lives. I think this is what is taught in Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:9-17. However, if a civil law is in disagreement with God's moral law, God's moral law should be obeyed. We should do this even if there are legal consequences.
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  #5  
Old 01-17-2008, 11:55 PM
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Then I would have to follow the example of Peter and others who said, "We ought to obey God rather than men" Acts 5:29

In my opinion, a Christian is to be a law-abiding citizen and nobody should be able to find anything in him which is contrary to the laws of this country and local laws where he lives. I think this is what is taught in Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:9-17. However, if a civil law is in disagreement with God's moral law, God's moral law should be obeyed. We should do this even if there are legal consequences.
Then don't you think that can extend to Muslims?
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Old 01-18-2008, 02:03 PM
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Then don't you think that can extend to Muslims?
Yes, but anyone who breaks a civil law (whether because of religious convictions or for any other reason) should pay whatever the penalty is for breaking that law.

If I as a Christian believe that God does not want me to get a driver's license because that would be supporting a "satanic" government, then I as a Christian should be ready to face whatever the penalty is for driving without a license.

If I as a Christian believe that I should bomb an abortion clinic, then I as a Christian should be ready to face whatever the penalty is for destroying property, inducing panic, and whatever other charges I may face.

An example we had here locally a few years ago was a minister who was a pacifist. He believed that taking a life for any reason was wrong. He believed it was wrong for him to support a government with his taxes if that government was going to take lives. So, he did not pay federal income taxes to support defense. I don't know if he refused to pay all federal taxes or just the percent that went to the defense budget. He also picketed and demonstrated government buildings and General Electric because GE received defense budget money. He was arrested for trespassing and also for non payment of income taxes many times. I don't agree with this man's beliefs but he was refusing to obey civil laws because they would force him to break (his understanding) of God's laws. Because he broke civil laws he spent time in jail.
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  #7  
Old 01-18-2008, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Yes, but anyone who breaks a civil law (whether because of religious convictions or for any other reason) should pay whatever the penalty is for breaking that law.

If I as a Christian believe that God does not want me to get a driver's license because that would be supporting a "satanic" government, then I as a Christian should be ready to face whatever the penalty is for driving without a license.

If I as a Christian believe that I should bomb an abortion clinic, then I as a Christian should be ready to face whatever the penalty is for destroying property, inducing panic, and whatever other charges I may face.
I don't think you are understanding what I'm asking you.
We were talking about a chip implant in the right upper arm area. You said that you would accept that chip if it became law. You then referenced Romans and Peter and spoke about keeping moral laws and obeying what God prescribes in his word. What you then offered me in this post talks about deranged lunatics blowing up innocent people and individuals who don't want I.D. or driver's licenses.

What I wanted to get at is that a Muslim has right within the statutes of our society. He or she is free to enjoy the freedoms that this country grants its citizens. He can build places of worship and be tax exempt, acquire a 501c3 for his incorporations that involve his religion.

You and I have rights to assembly and so does a Muslim.
You and I have a right to dress in the fashion we want ( although you may do it a little stranger one time a year) a Muslim is free to do the same also.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
An example we had here locally a few years ago was a minister who was a pacifist. He believed that taking a life for any reason was wrong. He believed it was wrong for him to support a government with his taxes if that government was going to take lives. So, he did not pay federal income taxes to support defense. I don't know if he refused to pay all federal taxes or just the percent that went to the defense budget. He also picketed and demonstrated government buildings and General Electric because GE received defense budget money. He was arrested for trespassing and also for non payment of income taxes many times. I don't agree with this man's beliefs but he was refusing to obey civil laws because they would force him to break (his understanding) of God's laws. Because he broke civil laws he spent time in jail.
Sounds like this man with all his zeal didn't apply much wisdom to his religious actions. I have heard of those who will not seek medical care for children and let a sick child linger in pain because of some conviction only to have the child expire due to their refusal for medical attention.

In those cases we have people who are not using their religious freedoms correctly, and cross over to acts that are not covered by Federal or State laws.

Freedom of religion is granted to every American citizen and I believe that everyone has a right to practice and worship in whatever way the deem proper, should be defended.

If I don't speak out for their rights, I may someday lose mine.


In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

www.IfAmericansKnew.com
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  #8  
Old 01-18-2008, 12:25 AM
Walkbyfaith7
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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
They inject it into the back of your right arm. It does not go into your hand or forehead. If the government made a law against you practicing Christianity what would be your recourse?
Are you talking about the mark of the beast and relating it to an ID card/license?
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  #9  
Old 01-18-2008, 12:37 AM
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Are you talking about the mark of the beast and relating it to an ID card/license?
no
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  #10  
Old 01-18-2008, 01:22 AM
Walkbyfaith7
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no
I don't think I could inject anything related to that into my body. I just wouldn't feel right....mark or not.
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