Your Predictions for the coming elections???

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by scotty

All of this is exactly what I don't want. Negotiated prices means negotiated services. Ever heard of HMO?. No, I don't want the government telling me when and where and how much health care I can or can not get. Look at the IRS, the education dept., the welfare dept. Social Security. Why would you think I want them running my health care? And premiums went up initionally due to greedy lawsuits back about 10 yrs ago, only now are we looking at the long term results. Don't start another Democratic "gimme program" just because you don't want to make your trial lawyer lobby mad. Regulation can work with out taxing everyone to death.

Bro...my family goes to Canada every year. We have some good friends there and I've personally seen their system at work. You could say I saw Sicko before Michael Moore ever produced it. LOL You guys are using confusing terms. Leaders in the US aren't trying to create a "national health care system", they're trying to create a "national health insurance program." It's just subsidized insurance applied to prices negotiated between the government and the entire industry. It's not like the Republican HMO scheme. It's just insurance. You can go to see the doctor whenever and wherever you want to.

Aquil is right, right now our premiums are so high, and rising, because of a combination of three things...rising numbers of uninsured people seeking services, rising costs for prescription medication, and junk lawsuits. In France and Canada they cap lawsuits and most cases are not handled in court like in the US...they are handled by health care review boards and rewards are issued by those representatives who are medical professionals.

You see, Europe and Canada has already made costs more affordable, covered everyone, and reformed their malpractice systems to keep doctors from frivolous lawsuits.

American is SOOOOOO far behind the Western World in this area it's amazing. Other nations have highly successful public education systems, other nations have highly successful tax compliance, other nations have highly successful health care systems. America is already a second rate nation, we just can't bring ourselves to admit it yet. We need to catch up with the rest of the world and restore our greatness as a nation.

I assure you, in our current health care system your premiums will become so high even YOU will find yourself and your family uninsured. And bros, there's no reason for it. It doesn't have to be that way.

Thats the governments job, protect us from the evils of the world, be it other countries or the evils here. But its not to dictate our lives for us. It was not formed so we could pay it to provide for us as it sees fit. It was formed because that was the life the founders fought to get away from. It was formed so we could live with the freedom to provide for ourselves as we see fit.

Don't you realize that a healthy population is in our nation and our societies best interest? Right now America has one of the highest infant mortality rates, more obesity, diabetes, cancer, you name it than any other nation. Why? Because we live like slobs and most of us try to cut costs by not seeing a doctor as regularly as we should. In other nations people visit their doctor regularly and head off health problems faster than we do, they head them off when it costs less to treat them too. It's in our national interest to provide health care for all. We're not talking about buying everyone a hydrogen car...we're talking about health care. Many doctors just want to practice medicine, they don't wan the insanity the insurance companies are causing. Even the American Medical Association is advocating for a universal health insurance system. And doctors are increasingly advocating for universal health insurance. One reason is that they often work for hospitals and treat people who can't pay the bill. Sometimes a doctor will render services and the insurance company will decide not to cover the cost of the treatment. This isn't fair to doctors, they should be paid for their services not have to pass the cost down by increasing the cost of services for the rest of us.

You can list all the statistics you want, but if it puts us back to where we were pre-America then what have you gained? This is what it comes down to and what you can't argue with. You talk about the Republicans being bad by wanting globalization while in the same sentence supporting Democrats because they want to change our policies to be like other countries in the world ?

Don't you think that if other countries are doing better than we are with something we'd be wise to look into how they do it and adjust it to do here? For example the who idea behind capping malpractice suits and reforming laws to reduce frivolous lawsuits...they've been doing that in France for decades!!! The whole idea is working in France. And the conservatives are right on this part of the issue. Should we refuse to reform malpractice laws just because the French, Canadians, and Brits have successfully done so...or should we study them and do what it takes to do the same here???

If you start to notice a foul smell like your nose up someones rearend it is because you just circled around and come up behind yourself.

See my comments above. Aquil has some good points. If you like, under the Canadian flavor we have a thread on this subject where we are talking with ACTUAL CANADIANS who have universal health care. These are Apostolic brothers who will tell you the truth about their system compared to ours.

Trust me...we need to catch up and the only thing preventing us from doing so is...our fears.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Bro...my family goes to Canada every year. We have some good friends there and I've personally seen their system at work. You could say I saw Sicko before Michael Moore ever produced it. LOL You guys are using confusing terms. Leaders in the US aren't trying to create a "national health care system", they're trying to create a "national health insurance program." It's just subsidized insurance applied to prices negotiated between the government and the entire industry. It's not like the Republican HMO scheme. It's just insurance. You can go to see the doctor whenever and wherever you want to.

Aquil is right, right now our premiums are so high, and rising, because of a combination of three things...rising numbers of uninsured people seeking services, rising costs for prescription medication, and junk lawsuits. In France and Canada they cap lawsuits and most cases are not handled in court like in the US...they are handled by health care review boards and rewards are issued by those representatives who are medical professionals.

You see, Europe and Canada has already made costs more affordable, covered everyone, and reformed their malpractice systems to keep doctors from frivolous lawsuits.

American is SOOOOOO far behind the Western World in this area it's amazing. Other nations have highly successful public education systems, other nations have highly successful tax compliance, other nations have highly successful health care systems. America is already a second rate nation, we just can't bring ourselves to admit it yet. We need to catch up with the rest of the world and restore our greatness as a nation.

I assure you, in our current health care system your premiums will become so high even YOU will find yourself and your family uninsured. And bros, there's no reason for it. It doesn't have to be that way.


Don't you realize that a healthy population is in our nation and our societies best interest? Right now America has one of the highest infant mortality rates, more obesity, diabetes, cancer, you name it than any other nation. Why? Because we live like slobs and most of us try to cut costs by not seeing a doctor as regularly as we should. In other nations people visit their doctor regularly and head off health problems faster than we do, they head them off when it costs less to treat them too. It's in our national interest to provide health care for all. We're not talking about buying everyone a hydrogen car...we're talking about health care. Many doctors just want to practice medicine, they don't wan the insanity the insurance companies are causing. Even the American Medical Association is advocating for a universal health insurance system. And doctors are increasingly advocating for universal health insurance. One reason is that they often work for hospitals and treat people who can't pay the bill. Sometimes a doctor will render services and the insurance company will decide not to cover the cost of the treatment. This isn't fair to doctors, they should be paid for their services not have to pass the cost down by increasing the cost of services for the rest of us.



Don't you think that if other countries are doing better than we are with something we'd be wise to look into how they do it and adjust it to do here? For example the who idea behind capping malpractice suits and reforming laws to reduce frivolous lawsuits...they've been doing that in France for decades!!! The whole idea is working in France. And the conservatives are right on this part of the issue. Should we refuse to reform malpractice laws just because the French, Canadians, and Brits have successfully done so...or should we study them and do what it takes to do the same here???



See my comments above. Aquil has some good points. If you like, under the Canadian flavor we have a thread on this subject where we are talking with ACTUAL CANADIANS who have universal health care. These are Apostolic brothers who will tell you the truth about their system compared to ours.

Trust me...we need to catch up and the only thing preventing us from doing so is...our fears.

Brother me and you have already had this conversation on the other thread. My response is the same. I don't want it.

Put it on the ballot, if the majority votes it in then fine, otherwise don't force it on me.

You still did not address how you figure the government can be trusted with this when all the other government run programs and departments are inept.

And last but not least, for as many as you can show that approve of it I can inturn post testimony of the nightmares others have went through.

Ever wonder why low income towns/cities have run down education systems, poor streets, run down city services. Because low income cities, towns, etc. pay less taxes by percentage than higher income towns/cities. The town I live in is comprised mostly of upper middle to upper income. The town that borders us is middle to lower income. The difference in the services, parks, schools, streets, etc is like night and day. This will be no different. If you are upper income,thus putting more into the system, you will get excellent health care. But if you are lower income, your health care will be the equal to that of a bad HMO. Lower income people in these countries you adore have waited in line for months just to be looked at by a doctor. Waiting list for surgeries, while the people suffer till their number is called.

I don't want it brother, period. If people want a government to take care of them then move to another country, otherwise put it on the ballot and let the majority decide.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by scotty

Brother me and you have already had this conversation on the other thread. My response is the same. I don't want it.

Put it on the ballot, if the majority votes it in then fine, otherwise don't force it on me.

Bro...do you have health insurance? If so, what do you pay in premiums?

You still did not address how you figure the government can be trusted with this when all the other government run programs and departments are inept.

Medicaid, Medicare, the Military, VA hospitals and a number of other government departments work very well. When dealing with these the issue is primarily funding, not being inept.

And last but not least, for as many as you can show that approve of it I can inturn post testimony of the nightmares others have went through.

Brother, my father in law had some trouble breathing and weakness two weeks after a heart surgery. We called the ambulance and he was taken to Kettering Hospital in Kettering Ohio. He sat in the ER waiting room for 10 hours. When he was eventually moved the ICU they gave him some blood thinner and began to examine him. During the process he went into shock and they lost him. The discovered that he bled to death from internal bleeding. They allowed him to sit for 10 hours, they could have saved his life. Does this horror story reflect the ENTIRE American health care system? No. It's not that bad if you have insurance. But my point is that there are horror stories in every health care system. The conservatives that oppose universal health care exploit these tragedies and try to pawn the stories off as though they represent the entire universal health care system of another nation. Sadly, some of us here in the US aren't wise enough to look at it objectively and apply critical thinking to the conclusions these conservatives are trying to make us have. We're mental midgets who believe nearly anything we hear. But I've been to other countries and see universal health care with MY OWN eyes. Dude, they're lying to us.

Ever wonder why low income towns/cities have run down education systems, poor streets, run down city services. Because low income cities, towns, etc. pay less taxes by percentage than higher income towns/cities. The town I live in is comprised mostly of upper middle to upper income. The town that borders us is middle to lower income. The difference in the services, parks, schools, streets, etc is like night and day. This will be no different. If you are upper income,thus putting more into the system, you will get excellent health care. But if you are lower income, your health care will be the equal to that of a bad HMO. Lower income people in these countries you adore have waited in line for months just to be looked at by a doctor. Waiting list for surgeries, while the people suffer till their number is called.

Dude, you don't know what you're talking about. The average wait time in a Canadian ER is like 20 to 30 minutes for non-emergencies. It's much like here in the US. I've been there and seen it myself.

I don't want it brother, period. If people want a government to take care of them then move to another country, otherwise put it on the ballot and let the majority decide.

Dude, you just don't get it. Oh well...America will one day catch up when fear is put behind us. Let me invite you to another thread on this forum so that we can discuss this with some Canadian brothers and sisters...

Canadian and American Healthcare ?
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...623#post379623

[StMark]

Healthcare is a serious issue in America.I certainly share all the concerns that all the conservatives here in regards to moral issues but i wished they would also admit that something has to be done about healthcare in America.I know families that are dishing out $1000 a month for health insurance. It's out of control!

I had a lot of reservations about a Natl. plan but after talking to Ron in Canada I'm a little more open to giving it a try. Canada has probably had time to work out the bugs too.

whenever social security and other Democratic reform was implimented in past generations, it was always met with hostility.People fear the unknown.
But now everyone enjoys workemen's comp, social sec. benefits and even unemployment when needed

[scotty]

To say Medicare and VA and all that works but is just not funded enough!!!!! that is not knowing what your talking about brother. The system you are relying on is corrupt and broken and you just want to add another program. This is America , not Canada or France. Greed don't exist there in the magnitude it exist here. The thing is when we open the door to this, where will it stop?!?! Go ahead and tell us what the tax rate is in these other countries. Lets just work for free and the government can determine what our pay is spent on for us. This is stupid. Move. If you want that type of system then move there. I wonder why you are so afraid of putting it on the ballot? Maybe because you know it wouldn't pass?

Sorry fella's, I just can't buy into a socialist government. Don't get me wrong I know it's going to come anyway. Global warming is coming. There are alot of things coming, the bible says so. This is just one of them. But with this comes the whole of the Democratic agenda. UN, NWO, everything will be universal including an ID system.
Does it not bother any of you that neither of the Dem. candidates have (without changing the subject) answered whether or not they will continue supporting Israel? I don't expect them to. The bible says "all nations will rise up against Israel" not some, all. That includes America. Its the big picture I don't like.