------The Parousia of Jesus Christ----------

[Rev]

Originally Posted by mfblume

More claims with no evidence? I never even heard of anyone saying the THREE sets of scriptures you provided in rev 14, 19 and 20 were of the same event, let alone considered it. So you cannot speak of "any honest hearted person". I did not stop proposing futurism in favour of partial preterism because I wanted to. And neither do I reject full preterism in favour of partial preterism because I wanted to. how can you make such wild accusations of any dishonesty on my part?

Just explain scripture, Rev. Please stop judging intentions that only God knows perfectly well.

At least you are consistant in being wrong! Here is the 3rd post on this thread by Lost & Found....

A simple answer is: “YES!”

Look at this:

Acts 1:9-11
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Here Jesus is said to be coming in “like manner” as they saw Him go. They did not see a horse or throne at Jesus’ ascension. That makes this passage problematic if each of these occurrences were to ‘literally’ take place at Jesus’ Parousia. Since God’s Word is always in agreement one with another, we need to look to see how these do agree. The first step in this is to ask whether the issue in Acts 1 is the ‘cloud’ or is it the way in which Jesus departed? If it is the ‘cloud,’ then the ‘horse’ and ‘throne’ conflict; but if it’s about the way Jesus ascended, then we find agreement. This conformity comes when one sees the ‘cloud,’ ‘horse,’ and ‘throne’ are not speaking of literal instances, but are instead referring to biblical imagery. This is the same hermeneutic used elsewhere when interpreting the meaning of the prophetic language of the Bible.

So your answer is; each of these is in agreement with what would occur during Jesus’ coming. The ‘cloud’ is glory; the ‘horse’ is war; the ‘throne’ is authority. To see this simply look up how the Bible already uses these images in prophetic language. The Bible always interprets itself if a person is willing to study it through.

[Rev]

You did read the title to this thread didn't you?

You said.......

"But to judge out of books and to have the dead raised to be judged so by having THEM BROUGHT to the throne, is not the same as Jesus COMING TO sinners and judging localized judgments on peoples."

So according to your doctrine at the first Parousia Jesus comes and does a localized judgment.

At then at the next Parousia is the white throne judgment!

So if the word Parousia refers to the 2nd. Coming of Jesus Christ that would mean that.....

At the first 2nd. Coming of Jesus Christ it was a local judgment.

At the 2nd 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ was the white throne judgment!

I'm sure that makes sense to you but to no one else!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Rev

At least you are consistant in being wrong! Here is the 3rd post on this thread by Lost & Found....

All these claims that I am wrong, with no scriptural support, are so overwhelmingly convincing, I am not sure if I can be a partial preterist a minute longer.

A simple answer is: “YES!”

Look at this:

Acts 1:9-11
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Here Jesus is said to be coming in “like manner” as they saw Him go. They did not see a horse or throne at Jesus’ ascension.

Who said they did see a horse? This coming is not the coming of AD70. You assume too much.

That makes this passage problematic if each of these occurrences were to ‘literally’ take place at Jesus’ Parousia. Since God’s Word is always in agreement one with another, we need to look to see how these do agree. The first step in this is to ask whether the issue in Acts 1 is the ‘cloud’ or is it the way in which Jesus departed? If it is the ‘cloud,’ then the ‘horse’ and ‘throne’ conflict; but if it’s about the way Jesus ascended, then we find agreement. This conformity comes when one sees the ‘cloud,’ ‘horse,’ and ‘throne’ are not speaking of literal instances, but are instead referring to biblical imagery.

Jesus physically arose and a cloud physical removed Him. This is yet future. People can say EVERYTHING the Acts detailed in association with Christ's departure, indicated to occur when He returns, will not occur when He returns, all they wish.

But the details of 1 Cor 15's DEMAND that the BODY be understood as to physically CHANGE deny everything about FP. And since Christ DID leave in a physical body, and we do not read it was abandoned afterwards, who is to say Acts 1:11 will not occur with Christ's return? Literal repetition of Acts 1:11 is verified as yet to actually occur because of the details of 1 Cor 15's references to OUR BODIES being changed. Christ will VISIBLY return.

Saying LIKE MANNER refers not to the list of details purposely mentioned around Acts 1:11, is preposterous!

Acts 1:9-11 KJV And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. (10) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; (11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

If the text read, Acts 1:9-11 KJV And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up gloriously in authority (10) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; (11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

...then you might have a point. But when we read IN LIKE MANNER, we are to notice the details. And the details agree with 1 Cor 15's emphasis of VISIBILITY in His return and our resurrection.

This is the same hermeneutic used elsewhere when interpreting the meaning of the prophetic language of the Bible.

So your answer is; each of these is in agreement with what would occur during Jesus’ coming. The ‘cloud’ is glory; the ‘horse’ is war; the ‘throne’ is authority. To see this simply look up how the Bible already uses these images in prophetic language. The Bible always interprets itself if a person is willing to study it through.

You cannot dismiss other passages that clearly refute your premise, just because they refute your premise. 1 Cor 15 is so plain about bodies, that everything else around it must be complicatingly distorted to convince anyone of anything else.

Sorry, your posts are not great. Explanations that violate common reasoning of how all other passages must fit the scheme are only seen to be pedantic ramblings. Phil 3:21 ruins the whole premise you propose.

My land, brother. All you did was see how WHITE THRONE can be leaped through hoops to become synonymous with WHITE CLOUD and WHITE HORSE. And you could not show any dead being reaped in Rev 14. Think about that, compounded by the plain reading of CHANGED bodies in 1 Cor 15.