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Felicity · #1 02-21-2008, 08:28 AM

Don't fight it. Dismiss it.

Digging4Truth · #2 02-21-2008, 08:38 AM

Sometimes problems arise because of the personality design of one side of an issue. Sometimes problems arise because of the failure to understand that peoples brains are wired differently.

This happens in marriages a lot.

One spouse will end up in big fights simply they keep seeing the other through their own set of logistics and fail to make an attempt to see the other sides point of view. They end up judging their very thoughts because they fail to realize that there is a different set of thought processes going on.

A successful marriage comes when the various spouses see, recognize & work with the differences in thinking rather than trying to continual force the square peg of ones thought processes through the round hole of the other spouses thoughts.

Many of the problems that might come from dealing with those of a differing temperament might be avoided if those dealing with them would spend a little effort trying to understand this differing mindset. (You do it in marriage... hopefully)

I am not saying that one should leave issues unaddressed. I am only suggesting that, when dealing with issues, meet them where they are and speak to them in languages they understand.

A little bit of effort can go a long way when dealing with people who were not raised wearing your shoes.

MissBrattified · #3 02-21-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

Don't fight it. Dismiss it.

Would you dismiss a Sunday School Teacher or an Assistant Pastor for being carnal? I mean, what is it that a musician or singer would do that would require "dismissing?"

I think we would do well to remember that most musicians and singers are volunteers, they don't get paid for what they do, and they are volunteering their service to God--not only for service, but for practice during the week and before church. Often musicians and singers are the most taken for granted and taken advantage of.

"I don't think that musicians and singers, when they are human (as opposed to "spiritual"), are any more human than any other person in the church." Perhaps its just more noticeable since they are up front in the public eye. And of course, that means more is expected of them.

tv1a · #4 02-22-2008, 02:17 AM

One must question the effective leadership of a pastor if he allows all the junk mentioned in the blog in his church, let alone in his music department. Chances are the music devils are the only devils running around the church.

The blog is an feeble attempt at deflecting blame for allowing situations to escalate to the point described in the bog.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Would you dismiss a Sunday School Teacher or an Assistant Pastor for being carnal? I mean, what is it that a musician or singer would do that would require "dismissing?"

I think we would do well to remember that most musicians and singers are volunteers, they don't get paid for what they do, and they are volunteering their service to God--not only for service, but for practice during the week and before church. Often musicians and singers are the most taken for granted and taken advantage of.

I don't think that musicians and singers, when they are human (as opposed to "spiritual"), are no more human than any other person in the church. Perhaps its just more noticeable since they are up front in the public eye. And of course, that means more is expected of them.

rkentsmith · #5 02-22-2008, 06:36 AM

Too many churches and pastors have been held hostage by such.....

MissBrattified · #6 02-22-2008, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkentsmith

Too many churches and pastors have been held hostage by such.....

Can you explain what you mean? How would a church or pastor be held hostage--and what is "such"? I'm not understanding how the church or a pastor is somehow helpless against a "music devil." IF a musician or singer is out of line--so badly that they can be termed a "devil"--then why would they still be ministering?

By the way, I totally did not get your friend's blog. He has so many inner struggles with narcissism and who-knows-what-else that he had to sit himself down--and he disrespected his pastor for letting him play when he was being a "fool?" That's a spiritual problem, not a "music" problem. How would the pastor know unless there were obvious outward signs? Was your friend sinning in some way? Did he just have a bad attitude?

I am being a little bit obtuse about this whole thing, because I KNOW there are carnal people everywhere, and I've been one my fair share of the time. But that doesn't make me or them a "devil", and maybe I resent that exaggerated characterization. I am a human being, I have faults like everyone else, and just because I get up to sing a song doesn't mean my faults go away or cease to be visible. Some days I am kind to everyone and easy to work with, and some days I'm stressed out and end up speaking too sharply to the tenors and giving the drummer the evil eye. Does that make me a "devil?" Or "normal?"

Maybe I don't understand this whole thing, because I'm having a hard time visualizing what you're calling a "devil." Is it something you can easily illustrate? Like I said before, I just have a hard time labeling people who donate their time and effort as "devils", even on bad days. And those that do get paid, often don't get paid enough to even make it matter.

And why is talking about a pastor like this okay with you?

"...I despised even moreso the pastors who put up with me.

Nothing is more spineless and pathetic than a supposed "man of God" who doesn't have the backbone to sit a musician down when they're not measuring up."

rkentsmith · #7 02-22-2008, 06:48 AM

OK....

Pastor has nice church and congregation....

Pastor finally has some "good music"...

Enter the music devil attitude...

Pastor doesn't want to sit the person down since it would hamper the good worship to go back to the tamberine and spoons....

Music Devil flaunts...

Pastor is held hostage...

The whole church is held hostage....

No matter what pastor does to pacify the music devil things escalate....

Finally the blow up takes place....

Music Devil takes his person and goes down the road....

The first service without the music devil attitude peace and sweetness returns to sanctuary...

Pastor kicks himself for allowing himself to be held hostage.....

Monkeyman · #8 02-22-2008, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkentsmith

OK....

Pastor has nice church and congregation....

Pastor finally has some "good music"...

Enter the music devil attitude...

Pastor doesn't want to sit the person down since it would hamper the good worship to go back to the tamberine and spoons....

Music Devil flaunts...

Pastor is held hostage...

The whole church is held hostage....

No matter what pastor does to pacify the music devil things escalate....

Finally the blow up takes place....

Music Devil takes his person and goes down the road....

The first service without the music devil attitude peace and sweetness returns to sanctuary...

Pastor kicks himself for allowing himself to be held hostage.....

Here is the flaw in your logic...this doesn't need to reach the pastor stage. A good music director will recognize the problem and take care of the situation before it effects the church. I don't care if all your left with is a song leader and some dude on a juice harp, if they are prayed up and anointed, that is all that is needed. Seriously.

Digging4Truth · #9 02-22-2008, 06:57 AM

Perhaps said pastor should stick with tambourine & spoons.

I find this whole conversation to be rather assuming upon people.

There are people with attitude issues in every church, business, club, city park... wherever.

Some of the people happen to play a musical instrument and/or sing.

The musician or singer who gives of himself in the worship services and pours out of himself (oftentimes without any initial response from the congregation and having to push through to a place of freedom of worship) seems to be guilty until proven innocent in this little thread.

I am hopeful that this is not the case but sometimes it sure feels that way.

As has been mentioned here before... I must be missing out on a whole other kind of musician/worship leader etc because those I have had dealings with have been some of the most dedicated, devoted, God loving & selfless people I have known.

But... let the discussion of this fabled "music devil" continue because it certainly is a popular subject with some.

MissBrattified · #10 02-22-2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkentsmith

OK....

Pastor has nice church and congregation....

Pastor finally has some "good music"...

Enter the music devil attitude...

Pastor doesn't want to sit the person down since it would hamper the good worship to go back to the tamberine and spoons....

Music Devil flaunts...

Pastor is held hostage...

The whole church is held hostage....

No matter what pastor does to pacify the music devil things escalate....

Finally the blow up takes place....

Music Devil takes his person and goes down the road....

The first service without the music devil attitude peace and sweetness returns to sanctuary...

Pastor kicks himself for allowing himself to be held hostage.....

I wish you'd write a normal paragraph.

Okay, so again: What is the "music devil" doing that classifies him as a "devil"? That's the part you're not quantifying very well.

And I agree with MonkeyMan--if there is a musician or singer in the department that is severely out of order, I will speak to them myself. If that doesn't work, then it goes to the pastor. But where is the music director in your scheme of things? Don't they usually handle folks that are out of line?