David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decision

[SDG]

Originally Posted by TrueNorth

No - just referring to the "overworked director". If it becomes a division they would probably need a Sec/Treas and support staff.

The funding is the big hurdle that the spanish brothers will have to overcome. If they want a division they will have to pay for it.

Do nationals pony up to entirely fund Foreign Missions? Do the kiddies fund S.S.? Would the Youth Dept survive if Sheaves for Christ could only target the deep pockets of their youth?

If the plan is to have one exec ... then treat him like a PIM. Let him go to all the churches in the org .. w/ help from the regional directors and collect funding for this proposed division by seeking partners

From your perspective and posts thus far... this seems to be a move to placate a burgeoning, demanding segment rather than to seriously explore the wonderful outreach/growth opportunities this could offer the entire fellowship ... there are scores of English speaking churches that want the training and resources to reach Spanish speakers in their communities ... and of the 500 churches you speak of many of the Spanish churches are really just daughter works of English speaking churches that are collecting tithes from them and often not compensating or under-compensating their Spanish pastors.

If this is the attitude behind this ... expect this to back fire ... for years there have been rumblings of a split ... and there have been splinters ... but if the bill is just solely handed to the Spanish churches ... why have middle man?

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Do nationals pony up for to entirely fund Foreign Missions? Do the kiddies fund S.S.? Would the Youth Dept survive if Sheaves for Christ could only target the deep pockets of their youth?

If the plan is to have one exec ... then treat him like a PIM. Let him go to all the churches in the org .. w/ help from the regional directors and collect funding for this proposed division by seeking partners

From your perspective and posts thus far... this seems to be a move to placate a burgeoning, demanding segment rather than to seriously explore the wonderful outreach opportunities this could offer the entire fellowship ... there are scores of English speaking churches that want the training and resources to reach Spanish speakers in their communities ... and of the 500 churches you speak of many of the Spanish churches are really just daughter works of English speaking churches that are collecting tithes from them and often not compensating or under-compensating their Spanish pastors.

If this is the attitude behind this ... expect this to back fire ... for years there have been rumblings of a split ... and there have been splinters ... but if the bill is just solely handed to the Spanish churches ... why have middle man?

I agree.

Why wouldn't those Spanish churches just go ahead and do their own thing?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

I agree.

Why wouldn't those Spanish churches just go ahead and do their own thing?

Because most are very loyal to the org ... but there have been grumblings for years .. and some have left to start there own thing...

if the powers that be handle this division thing as a yo-yo .... they will frustrate a group that is frustrated in many ways already.

I'm so glad that I'm now so detached from this stuff ... Imagine if other divisions were given this task ????

It's either an org division that has the chance to be fully funded by all it's constituents or why do it?

But if it's no dinero ... then no division ... it sounds like this is not going to work. Almost as if it's set up to never happen.

[ChicagoPastor]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Because most are very loyal to the org ... but there have been grumblings for years .. and some have left to start there own thing...

if the powers that be handle this division thing as a yo-yo .... they will frustrate a group that is frustrated in many ways already.

I'm so glad that I'm now so detached from this stuff ... Imagine if other divisions were given this task ????

It's either an org division that has the chance to be fully funded by all it's constituents or why do it?

But if it's no dinero ... then no division ... it sounds like this is not going to work.

I want to add my 2 cents but I need to go back and read and see how the conversation turned to Spanish Ministry...

Again, I need to read through the thread, but since I started typing.
#1 I'm IN FAVOR of the Spanish division or dept.
#2 Time to stop looking at Spanish minsitries as some "daughter work" Spanish Ministries is NOT a 'home missions work' anymore. It is the fastest growing segment of the UPCI.
#3 If this doesn't go through, eventually there will be a split.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by ChicagoPastor

I want to add my 2 cents but I need to go back and read and see how the conversation turned to Spanish Ministry...

Again, I need to read through the thread, but since I started typing.
#1 I'm IN FAVOR of the Spanish division or dept.
#2 Time to stop looking at Spanish minsitries as some "daughter work" Spanish Ministries is NOT a 'home missions work' anymore. It is the fastest growing segment of the UPCI.
#3 If this doesn't go through, eventually there will be a split.

TN, seems to have some inside info that the bill will be placed in the hands of Spanish churches .... as if other divisions are structured and funded in this manner.

What say ye, CP? You and I have been around this all our lives .... we know that the stakes are high. I sure hope the GB does too.

The split would come from very good and loyal men ... that would be sad.

[ChicagoPastor]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

TN, seems to have some inside info that the bill will be placed in the hands of Spanish churches .... as if other divisions are structured and funded in this manner.

What say ye, CP? You and I have been around this all our lives .... we know that the stakes are high. I sure hope the GB does too.

The split would come from very good and loyal men ... that would be sad.

I have heard the same at TN.
Spanish would have to fund their own division....but it has yet to be determined how We might just get a national offering drive like SFC...

IMO, I don't think the Spanish Pastors are going to want this. I know A LOT of Pastors that are tired of 'daughter church' mentality. That want to be recognized as Pastors, at the same level as English Pastors.

We are at a point where we don't want to be funded by the English Churches, we want to fund ourselves.

Is the money there without a National Offering Drive? I'm not sure...then again, at this point, we're not paying for an Executive's salary, because no one wants to give up their Church....
We also have yet to see what Spanish Ministries can really do, because some have not wanted to give to their full potential because they know their money does not go 100% to Spanish Ministries even though it's raised at a Spanish event. My Father's Church gave the #1 offering to Spanish Ministries for 9 years straight....until we found out that the money that was supposed to be designated for Spanish was also funding Filipino and Asisian and other ministries...which would be fine but by having to share the money with other ministries like that, Spanish always looked like it had a deficit.

IF the UPC blocks this....
There is not an imminant threat of some big pull-out or division, but through time I believe another organization or two would be formed.
It has already happened, there's an Org based out of New York, that's Supt was a UPC minister.
There's a few in Texas. One started by the former Texas Dist Spanish Director.