David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decision

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I'm sure they do, MOW. You seem to be a pretty laid back person to converse with. I'm a little teary about all of this conversation and I guess I need to stay out of it and I will.

Just remembering when I've been in these type conflicts and God has specifically spoken to me - "The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace."

Since you gave such large room for expression - that is mine.

I appreciate you, MOW!

Bowing out.......

Thank you. I know that for some reading these things is painful (because they lived it) and to others, they just refuse to believe any of it. Let me say that none of the comments here have been intended to tear anything down nor impugn anyone. However, when we can no longer discuss things that happen in our lives, we have indeed become BORG!

Like AE, stated, there are MANY servant leaders in the org and to deny that would be to just blatantly lie. However, to deny the other would be to blatantly lie as well. These things can be discussed in a civil manner and I see no one here becoming personal or wanting to destroy others. That is my point. These people have or are trying to move on, wounded though they might be. This forum is therapeutic to many just being able to read these posts and being able to express themselves and know that they weren't the only ones.

For the record, I do NOT want to see the org come crashing down. I really don't know if it is capable of reform. There are so many things which are entrenched. Time will tell, I guess.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Like AE, stated, there are MANY servant leaders in the org and to deny that would be to just blatantly lie. However, to deny the other would be to blatantly lie as well. These things can be discussed in a civil manner and I see no one here becoming personal or wanting to destroy others. That is my point. These people have or are trying to move on, wounded though they might be. This forum is therapeutic to many just being able to read these posts and being able to express themselves and know that they weren't the only ones.

For the record, I do NOT want to see the org come crashing down. I really don't know if it is capable of reform. There are so many things which are entrenched. Time will tell, I guess.

Until people starting telling the truth about what is happening and WHO is doing it then nothing will change. There's way too much "respecting" going on which is not much more than looking the other way and not holding people in positions of responsibility accountable for their actions. Personally, I think the issues are systemic and don't hold out much hope for real reform of any kind.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

Until people starting telling the truth about what is happening and WHO is doing it then nothing will change. There's way too much "respecting" going on which is not much more than looking the other way and not holding people in positions of responsibility accountable for their actions. Personally, I think the issues are systemic and don't hold out much hope for real reform of any kind.

Good thoughts there, A PoMo!

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

Until people starting telling the truth about what is happening and WHO is doing it then nothing will change. There's way too much "respecting" going on which is not much more than looking the other way and not holding people in positions of responsibility accountable for their actions. Personally, I think the issues are systemic and don't hold out much hope for real reform of any kind.

Please explain this statement.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

Please explain this statement.

It's part of the ethos, the culture, the group think of the UPC. There are lots of systemic problems in the UPC, in my opinion. In the context of these remarks I'd say that one of them is whole idea of 'touch not my mine anointed' which is not biblical when its taken to mean that it's somehow improper or spiritually dangerous to challenge leadership and to hold them accountable for their actions. This has produced a good 'ol boy type environment where serious character flaws of our leaders are overlooked and justified on a regular basis out of 'respect' mixed in with fear of divine retribution. I'm not advocating an all out assault on leaders and pastors. But the idea that somehow it' out of line and inappropriate to hold them accountable for their funny financial deals, their manipulation of people and situations to their own gain, their aggressive promotion of numbers, their cronism, their nepotism, and many other manifestations of poor character is harmful to the body of Christ.

Certainly, I'm not saying ALL UPC ministers are like that. Certainly not. But I am saying that there are enough that it's a big problem and the solution is hindered by a flawed ethos that discourages honest accountability in these things and as a result the whole group suffers.