District Puts WPF on Notice

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

CC1, this post again demonstrates how long you have been gone... I would say there are very very few who would harp on such every sermon.

Not in my city or fair state, but I do know of a UPC church that is trying to achieve this. Nearly every service involves legalism of some sort. Thankfully these are in the minority!

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by commonsense

Not in my city or fair state, but I do know of a UPC church that is trying to achieve this. Nearly every service involves legalism of some sort. Thankfully these are in the minority!

oh, granted - there are a few such - but the point is they are marginalized and not mainstream.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by CC1

Pressing,

Thank you for this post. I understand better where you are coming from but I must say that you have changed, in your mind, what I have said and made it far worse. You posted things I have talked about in the past as absolutes in your post I am quoting above. Like I have said ALL Pentecostal women are ugly and need makeup. We both know that is absolutely not how I have stated things. I have said that the majority of women are not blessed with naturally clear complexions, lips with color, etc and that makup applied properly enhances their appearance (and also furthers the seperation of the sexas by the way - something OP's are supposed to be for).

I have no doubt that there are some stringy haried Pentecostal women that are some of the sweetest women on the planet and godly women as well. That does not mean they don't have stringy hair that does not look good when I see it at Wal Mart. Sorry. That is just a fact. If I post that I see no glory for God in that it is what I believe. It doesn't make these women less godly, less sweet, etc. I have friends and relatives who look like that and I love them dearly.

In your frustration with me you have also personaized my discussions to the point you apparently believe I am trying to personally persuade each and every old time Pentecostal woman to change her standards.

I don't go around "witnessing" to Pentecostal women that they should change in my every day life. This is a DISCUSSION FORUM and this is where I discuss these things.

I have been around hundreds of Pentecostal folks, at least half of them women, and NEVER said one word to them about their hair, dress, or any other standards they choose to keep.

Apparently when you read what I believe is the truth about these subjects you extend that to picture me with some sort of personal vendetta to change all Pentecostal women I come in contact with. Just not true.

Do I hope some people who have come to the same conclusions I have about what the biblical truth and principles are regarding these things read my posts and find inspirtation in them? Of course! Just as I am sure every conservative contending for bundage does.

Don't make it personal!!!!

I am pleased that you still love me because you are one of my favorite posters and the fact that you are so angry with me has distressed me greatly. I can't apologize for what I have posted and written because I meant every word of it but I am sorry that it has made you think less of me and that you think I am not representing my positons well.

I apologize for the rambling nature of this post but it has been a very long day. Maybe I can come back later when I am refreshed with some of the good brisket my wife is cooking and edit it so that it makes sense!

God Bless You Pressing On

WOW, I may have misunderstood you all these years?!!! Is that why people get divorced?!!!

Thank you for your post. Maybe I should have talked with you back on AFF.

Okay, I'll read your future posts with more objectivity. I can only try.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I believe PO has misunderstood your sense of humor at times too.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

CC1, this post again demonstrates how long you have been gone... I would say there are very very few who would harp on such every sermon.

Stephen,

When you have as many relatives and friends still UPC as I do you are not "gone".

When you hear in person or CD, or DVD, or webcast the many sermons I hear each year you are not "gone".

I do believe there are more churches that don't hear the clothesline from the pulpit every sermon as much as you used to now but please note what I said was that even when the clothesline is not preached it is alluded to usually in just about every sermon.

Have you not listened to sermons from all of the major confernces the last few years? I believe you will have a hard time finding one that does not at some point veer off into standards / seperation at some point.

I am not saying every UPC preacher is in the pulpit pounding it and screaming about women with pants on going to hell. Perhaps that is what you think I am thinking.

I will tell you that what I have not personally been exposed to is this supposedly growing segment of UPC churches and pastors where the legalism is not emphasized to the point that many church members do not adhere to them and they are reservd for those who wish to actively participate in platform ministrry, teaching, etc. In other words churches wtih 1st class and 2nd class saints. LOL!!! I guess that is at least a step in the right direction.

I think you guys hear the standards / seperation so much in sermons that you don't realize how much it is there as you just filter it out and remember the other aspects of the sermons. I bet if you go back and listen to sermons from major UPC conferences over the last few years you will be hard pressed to find one that does not incorporate the "hold the fort" message in it.

There is even an entire "Hold The Fort" conference hosted by my friend Pastor Mooney.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

WOW, I may have misunderstood you all these years?!!! Is that why people get divorced?!!!

Thank you for your post. Maybe I should have talked with you back on AFF.

Okay, I'll read your future posts with more objectivity. I can only try.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by CC1

Stephen,

When you have as many relatives and friends still UPC as I do you are not "gone".

When you hear in person or CD, or DVD, or webcast the many sermons I hear each year you are not "gone".

I do believe there are more churches that don't hear the clothesline from the pulpit every sermon as much as you used to now but please note what I said was that even when the clothesline is not preached it is alluded to usually in just about every sermon.

Have you not listened to sermons from all of the major confernces the last few years? I believe you will have a hard time finding one that does not at some point veer off into standards / seperation at some point.

I am not saying every UPC preacher is in the pulpit pounding it and screaming about women with pants on going to hell. Perhaps that is what you think I am thinking.

I will tell you that what I have not personally been exposed to is this supposedly growing segment of UPC churches and pastors where the legalism is not emphasized to the point that many church members do not adhere to them and they are reservd for those who wish to actively participate in platform ministrry, teaching, etc. In other words churches wtih 1st class and 2nd class saints. LOL!!! I guess that is at least a step in the right direction.

I think you guys hear the standards / seperation so much in sermons that you don't realize how much it is there as you just filter it out and remember the other aspects of the sermons. I bet if you go back and listen to sermons from major UPC conferences over the last few years you will be hard pressed to find one that does not incorporate the "hold the fort" message in it.

There is even an entire "Hold The Fort" conference hosted by my friend Pastor Mooney.

Perhaps I am the one insulated ... or am just engaging in wishful thinking?

I will admit
I go to very few major conferences - and listen to even fewer online but I would venture to say clothesline preaching at larger events is intended more to placate the few than influence change for the many - it is commonly agreed the local pastors handles such as he sees fit.

Personally I think there are other aspects of Pentecostalism that are more offensive to visitors than obique references made clothes.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Personally I think there are other aspects of Pentecostalism that are more offensive to visitors than obique references made clothes.

Don't think you are going to get away with slipping in this potentially explosive sentance and it not be noticed!

Splain yourself.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by CC1

Don't think you are going to get away with slipping in this potentially explosive sentance and it not be noticed!

Splain yourself.

OK then!
I refer to the Holy Moderate Moorings text... (one we should be using more - I might add)

I SUBMIT 9, 10, 14, AND 15

Do you agree?




1. Moderation is simply the truth - the left and the right are looking our way

2 Expository Preaching is desired over one word study preaching

3 Seeking Medical Attention is not indicative of Faithlessness

4 Christian intellect is compatible with the Holy Spirit

5 It is impossible to evaluate one's Spiritual condition from outer appearances

6 Moderation should be practiced in all things

7 Dress standards beyond basic modesty are important secondary issues

8 Development of personal convictions and restraint are crucial to the Christian lifestyle

9 We should forsake damnation of Christian Churches who have reached conclusions different than our own.

10 Fervent preaching is desired without a mandatory crowd response

11 Fervent worship is desirable without manipulation from the pulpit or organ

12 There is Oneness of the body, for Clergy and Laity

13 Accountability of all offerings and tithe are required

14 Freedom of individual members includes holding views other than those commonly held by church leadership

15 Fear is contrary to Christian living and should never be extolled from the pulpit

16 Family is a primary institution and is as sacred as the church itself

[Pragmatist]

Originally Posted by CC1

Stephen,

When you have as many relatives and friends still UPC as I do you are not "gone".

When you hear in person or CD, or DVD, or webcast the many sermons I hear each year you are not "gone".

I do believe there are more churches that don't hear the clothesline from the pulpit every sermon as much as you used to now but please note what I said was that even when the clothesline is not preached it is alluded to usually in just about every sermon.

Have you not listened to sermons from all of the major confernces the last few years? I believe you will have a hard time finding one that does not at some point veer off into standards / seperation at some point.

I am not saying every UPC preacher is in the pulpit pounding it and screaming about women with pants on going to hell. Perhaps that is what you think I am thinking.

I will tell you that what I have not personally been exposed to is this supposedly growing segment of UPC churches and pastors where the legalism is not emphasized to the point that many church members do not adhere to them and they are reservd for those who wish to actively participate in platform ministrry, teaching, etc. In other words churches wtih 1st class and 2nd class saints. LOL!!! I guess that is at least a step in the right direction.

I think you guys hear the standards / seperation so much in sermons that you don't realize how much it is there as you just filter it out and remember the other aspects of the sermons. I bet if you go back and listen to sermons from major UPC conferences over the last few years you will be hard pressed to find one that does not incorporate the "hold the fort" message in it.

There is even an entire "Hold The Fort" conference hosted by my friend Pastor Mooney.

I would have to agree with Stephen. I think you might hear it more at conferences/camp meetings then at your local church.

I've attended a UPC church for 2 1/2 years, and I honestly don't know what my pastor believes in regard to standards. The only thing he's stated from the pulpit was something about women cutting their hair when they backslide. He does occasionally make reference to separation issues, but certainly not every sermon.