9 Minutes of Horror for the UPCI

deltaguitar · #1 03-27-2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

I laughed so hard my jaws hurting...

Look, those poor guys were blindsided. I really feel sorry for Urshan and Sabin. The UPC has made a lot of progress since those days but I wonder what their answer to that same question would be today, in 2008.

You can tell the host almost feels sorry for Urshan at the point where he ask, "Do you understand the question?" when asking Urshan if he accepted Dr. Martin as a brother.

I have heard that Bro. Sabin has a website. I would like to hear from him and how he feels now looking back on this debate.

staysharp · #2 03-27-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Look, those poor guys were blindsided. I really feel sorry for Urshan and Sabin. The UPC has made a lot of progress since those days but I wonder what their answer to that same question would be today, in 2008.

You can tell the host almost feels sorry for Urshan at the point where he ask, "Do you understand the question?" when asking Urshan if he accepted Dr. Martin as a brother.

I have heard that Bro. Sabin has a website. I would like to hear from him and how he feels now looking back on this debate.

It wasn't long afterward, Sabin left the UPCI and renounced these debates.

Elisabeth · #3 03-27-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

It wasn't long afterward, Sabin left the UPCI and renounced these debates.

Didn't Sabin leave in the early 90's? I just remember hearing something about the whole split in St. Paul - didn't it involve a Bible School or something? What reasons were given when Sabin left the UPCI? Quite surprising, considering he seemed pretty strong as the "right-hand-man" in this video, to the point where Urshan was letting hime speak for him? Quite an "about-face" I would say!

Where is Sabin now? Is there any place a person could find anything about when he renounced debates such as this one?

deltaguitar · #4 03-27-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elisabeth

Didn't Sabin leave in the early 90's? I just remember hearing something about the whole split in St. Paul - didn't it involve a Bible School or something? What reasons were given when Sabin left the UPCI? Quite surprising, considering he seemed pretty strong as the "right-hand-man" in this video, to the point where Urshan was letting hime speak for him? Quite an "about-face" I would say!

Where is Sabin now? Is there any place a person could find anything about when he renounced debates such as this one?

From his website he still seems "Apostolic". I have also heard that he renounced that you have to speak in tongues/baptism to be saved.

Someone even knows what church he goes to now. I would love to hear from him and what his views are now.

I have respect for him because he basically was going against two very experianced debaters and he did pretty good. He has a very quick mind.

staysharp · #5 03-27-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

From his website he still seems "Apostolic". I have also heard that he renounced that you have to speak in tongues/baptism to be saved.

Someone even knows what church he goes to now. I would love to hear from him and what his views are now.

I have respect for him because he basically was going against two very experianced debaters and he did pretty good. He has a very quick mind.

I remember at GC one year going by a booth and they were showing this debate and everybody was so proud of these men. It was around 1987 or 88? I think I was newly married and my wife was with me and my oldest daughter was in a stroller. She's now 20.

deltaguitar · #6 03-27-2008, 10:24 AM

One more thing. He had to have left in the 1990s because there is a letter out on the net showing him taking a position against the Affirmation Statement.

Here it is. Dated 11/1/1992. Possibly he didn't leave over doctrinal issues alone.

http://www.spiritualabuse.org/issues...ion/sabin.html

staysharp · #7 03-27-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

One more thing. He had to have left in the 1990s because there is a letter out on the net showing him taking a position against the Affirmation Statement.

Here it is. Dated 11/1/1992. Possibly he didn't leave over doctrinal issues alone.

http://www.spiritualabuse.org/issues...ion/sabin.html

Actually, I think these debates are really more like 1987 or so. They were new at that GC when we went and my daughter was a year or so old. So, that would make it around 1988 or 89, the AF Stat was in 92 if I remember correctly.

staysharp · #8 03-27-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elisabeth

Didn't Sabin leave in the early 90's? I just remember hearing something about the whole split in St. Paul - didn't it involve a Bible School or something? What reasons were given when Sabin left the UPCI? Quite surprising, considering he seemed pretty strong as the "right-hand-man" in this video, to the point where Urshan was letting hime speak for him? Quite an "about-face" I would say!

Where is Sabin now? Is there any place a person could find anything about when he renounced debates such as this one?

Many of these men who debated during those years became disenchanted by the whole process. It really divided more than anything else. Another debater, literally burned all his tapes. This is just nonsense bickering among brothers IMO.

deltaguitar · #9 03-27-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

Many of these men who debated during those years became disenchanted by the whole process. It really divided more than anything else. Another debater, literally burned all his tapes. This is just nonsense bickering among brothers IMO.

You have to appreciate the scholarship that has been done by the Protestants and Catholics. Much of this has come through debate.

There is an appropriate time for "discussion" so that the truth can be documented and carried forward. The truth will always last and isn't afraid of open honest debate.

staysharp · #10 03-27-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

You have to appreciate the scholarship that has been done by the Protestants and Catholics. Much of this has come through debate.

There is an appropriate time for "discussion" so that the truth can be documented and carried forward. The truth will always last and isn't afraid of open honest debate.

There's a difference between debate and dialog. I think the new Bernard debates were very civil and more dialog than debate. I was impressed with the civility of these men.