What does having the Holy Spirit mean?

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I can give a simple clear answer to your question. If a person hasn't received the Holy Spirit like the disciples in Acts 2 with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, then no, they do not have the Spirit of Christ and they are none of His.

Then WHAT IN THE WORLD do they have after repentance? NOTHING?????? I know people who have totally walked away from sins and addictions after they repent. They could not do that without the power of God's Spirit in their lives.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Then WHAT IN THE WORLD do they have after repentance? NOTHING?????? I know people who have totally walked away from sins and addictions after they repent. They could not do that without the power of God's Spirit in their lives.

Here's some posts by Mizpeh that explains her position .....

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Repentance made a HUGE change in my life. My mind was completely changed. I didn't want to do the sinful things I had been doing. I stopped taking the Lord's name in vain. I stopped going to bars, etc. I started reading the Bible. I told everyone I knew about Jesus. I prayed. I was a different person just because of repentance. My mind was turned around and I wasn't the same. Praise the Lord!

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I don't think I said I came to Christ on my own. God was dealing with my heart months before I repented. I didn't tell the WHOLE story.

I know from the Bible that it is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance. Repentance IS a change of mind. I would have to disagree with your first paragraph. Repentance through the leading of the Spirit turned me around completely. All of the changes wrought in my life when I first came to God, I believe resulted from repentance. A repentance that God's grace granted me. I didn't receive the Spirit until I spoke in tongues a couple of months later. The work of salvation is of the Spirit, all of it. From faith to confession to repentance to the new birth. We are saved by the grace of God through faith. True repentance totally turned my life around.

I agree completely with your last two paragraphs. A person who was later to be a good friend witnessed to me and I started reading the Bible at the gospels. I repented while reading the gospel of Matthew. I know it was the Spirit of God dealing with my heart through his word. God gets all the glory from me for what He has done in my life. I'm sorry if that didn't come across in my post.

Originally Posted by Felicity

Repentance didn't turn your life around.

The Spirit of God changing you did that. You repented because of the Holy Ghost working in you.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I agree with you, the Holy Ghost was working in my life but not IN me. Not until I was baptized in the Spirit. The Spirit led me to a place of repentance without being indwelt by the Spirit. The Spirit was WITH me but not IN me. This is where we don't agree.

What do you think about Acts 8 and the conversion of the Samaritans? Why did they send for the apostles to pray for the new believers to receive the Holy Spirit if they received the Spirit upon faith? Why did Paul say ask the disciples at Ephesus in Acts 19 "Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed?" if they received the Spirit upon faith?

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Then WHAT IN THE WORLD do they have after repentance? NOTHING?????? I know people who have totally walked away from sins and addictions after they repent. They could not do that without the power of God's Spirit in their lives.

AMEN!!!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Then WHAT IN THE WORLD do they have after repentance? NOTHING?????? I know people who have totally walked away from sins and addictions after they repent. They could not do that without the power of God's Spirit in their lives.

I didn't say they had NOTHING! I said they don't have the Spirit of Christ IN them. They most certainly have the Spirit of Christ WITH them and continuing to guide them into all truth. Those who turn from sin receive the blessings of God. He that fears God and works righteousness is accepted with Him. I think repentance is huge and not just an "I'm Sorry" act that is a result of God working in someone's heart.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I didn't say they had NOTHING! I said they don't have the Spirit of Christ IN them. They most certainly have the Spirit of Christ WITH them and continuing to guide them into all truth. Those who turn from sin receive the blessings of God. He that fears God and works righteousness is accepted with Him. I think repentance is huge and not just an "I'm Sorry" act that is a result of God working in someone's heart.

Mizpeh ....

Your views on this subject reminds me of what my very closest PW friend expressed to me once when we were talking about this. We worked closely together and were very close friends since Bible School. She's definitely PAJC in her views on salvation. She said that repentance resulted in a relationship with God akin to communication wires being strung between us and God.

Well .... lol .... I took her up on that at the time and asked the usual questions and the answers were very unsatisfactory. Communication enablement between me and God doesn't change a life from the inside out. The natural mind has to be transformed spiritually before it can understand or comprehend and desire spiritual things. That's what Scripture says.

So then in your view the Spirit of God transforms a life inwardly resulting in change from the inside out by being WITH them but not IN them?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Mizpeh ....

Your views on this subject reminds me of what my very closest PW friend expressed to me once when we were talking about this. We worked closely together and were very close friends since Bible School. She's definitely PAJC in her views on salvation. She said that repentance resulted in a relationship with God akin to communication wires being strung between us and God.

Well .... lol .... I took her up on that at the time and asked the usual questions and the answers were very unsatisfactory. Communication enablement between me and God doesn't change a life from the inside out. The natural mind has to be transformed spiritually before it can understand or comprehend and desire spiritual things. That's what Scripture says.

So then in your view the Spirit of God transforms a life inwardly resulting in change from the inside out by being WITH them but not IN them?

Yes, that is my view from the word of God and my experience as I've already related to you. Your last two posts (124, 125) were very good and I agree with most of what you say. Repentance is an inner work of the heart but does not require the Spirit of God to be in a person for the work to be done.

.....and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, for the promise is unto you....

Receiving the Spirit is separate from repentance. From what I understand you believe there are two times a person receives the Spirit of God, once at belief and repentance and then again with the sign of tongues. I cannot find proof for that anywhere in the scriptures.

The first time the apostles received the Spirit was on the day of Pentecost. They had been given power and authority over devils and sickness before the day of Pentecost. They baptized believers in water unto repentance before the day of Pentecost, but they did not have the Holy Spirit IN them until Acts 2:4. Jesus said the Comforter was WITH them but would be in them. Jesus said He must go away to send the Comforter.... ... I can't find where the apostles had been given the Spirit twice.

After the discussions over the past few weeks, like Barb, I have been searching the scriptures to see if these things are so. I'm doing a inductive study on the book of Romans to help me understand justification among other things.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Yes, that is my view from the word of God and my experience as I've already related to you. Your last two posts (124, 125) were very good and I agree with most of what you say. Repentance is an inner work of the heart but does not require the Spirit of God to be in a person for the work to be done.

.....and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, for the promise is unto you....

Receiving the Spirit is separate from repentance. From what I understand you believe there are two times a person receives the Spirit of God, once at belief and repentance and then again with the sign of tongues. I cannot find proof for that anywhere in the scriptures.

The first time the apostles received the Spirit was on the day of Pentecost. They had been given power and authority over devils and sickness before the day of Pentecost. They baptized believers in water unto repentance before the day of Pentecost, but they did not have the Holy Spirit IN them until Acts 2:4. Jesus said the Comforter was WITH them but would be in them. Jesus said He must go away to send the Comforter.... ... I can't find where the apostles had been given the Spirit twice.

After the discussions over the past few weeks, like Barb, I have been searching the scriptures to see if these things are so. I'm doing a inductive study on the book of Romans to help me understand justification among other things.

Good! The kind of discussion that causes us to search the Scriptures more is beneficial and edifying and uplifting!

You explain your position well and of course I'm well acquainted with it. I've heard it over and over.

One thing I want to say ..... I don't believe that reception of the Spirit is necessarily two separate events. But there are different works/operations of the Spirit in and on our lives and they don't all happen at the same time.

In actuality when you say that the Spirit comes ON us and is WITH us is a separate event that takes place before we're Spirit filled. And the fact is that the 120 were moved on by the Holy Ghost in several ways before they spoke in tongues. In other words there were different operations of the Spirit that day before the ultimate speaking in tongues.

Oh my....... my mind is going in so many different directions here with this .... it's hard for me to stay on track. So many different aspects that can be considered and brought out.

I read a post by one of the elders on another forum a couple weeks back that impacted me greatly. I still haven't come to a conclusion totally ..... but it did open my eyes and gave me a perspective on receiving the baptism of the Spirit that I hadn't had previous to that. I still believe a person is regenerated before they are Spirit filled with tongues evidence. However, I do believe that the enduement of power we receive ushers us into a new position spiritually speaking and gives us benefits (again spiritually speaking) that we don't have .... and that don't come with initial conversion!

Originally Posted by Felicity

Good! The kind of discussion that causes us to search the Scriptures more is beneficial and edifying and uplifting!

You explain your position well and of course I'm well acquainted with it. I've heard it over and over.

One thing I want to say ..... I don't believe that reception of the Spirit is necessarily two separate events. But there are different works/operations of the Spirit in and on our lives and they don't all happen at the same time.

In actuality when you say that the Spirit comes ON us and is WITH us is a separate event that takes place before we're Spirit filled. And the fact is that the 120 were moved on by the Holy Ghost in several ways before they spoke in tongues. In other words there were different operations of the Spirit that day before the ultimate speaking in tongues.

Oh my....... my mind is going in so many different directions here with this .... it's hard for me to stay on track. So many different aspects that can be considered and brought out.

I read a post by one of the elders on another forum a couple weeks back that impacted me greatly. I still haven't come to a conclusion totally ..... but it did open my eyes and gave me a perspective on receiving the baptism of the Spirit that I hadn't had previous to that. I still believe a person is regenerated before they are Spirit filled with tongues evidence. However, I do believe that the enduement of power we receive ushers us into a new position spiritually speaking and gives us benefits (again spiritually speaking) that we don't have .... and that don't come with initial conversion!

Care to share the elders post? PM?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I read a post by one of the elders on another forum a couple weeks back that impacted me greatly. I still haven't come to a conclusion totally ..... but it did open my eyes and gave me a perspective on receiving the baptism of the Spirit that I hadn't had previous to that. I still believe a person is regenerated before they are Spirit filled with tongues evidence. However, I do believe that the enduement of power we receive ushers us into a new position spiritually speaking and gives us benefits (again spiritually speaking) that we don't have .... and that don't come with initial conversion!

I'd like to read a post that made an impact on you!

I haven't even touched on scriptures that point to the new birth as water and Spirit baptisms. I don't believe I've heard a sound explanation of the Bible which explains the new birth as other than the baptisms found in Acts 2:38 and Hebrews 6:1-2.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I'd like to read a post that made an impact on you!

I haven't even touched on scriptures that point to the new birth as water and Spirit baptisms. I don't believe I've heard a sound explanation of the Bible which explains the new birth as other than the baptisms found in Acts 2:38 and Hebrews 6:1-2.

I haven't yet heard a *3 steps to salvation* argument that is rock solid or water tight enough to persuade me that a person hasn't been regenerated spiritually before they speak in tongues.

As I said earlier there are questions on both sides of the issue that can't be answered conclusively enough to convince me .... and I have my own salvation experience. I know what happened to me. I know the relationship I had with God long prior to me speaking in tongues. I know I was His child and He was my Father.

That event took place when I was 6 years old. The conviction of the Holy Ghost hit me like a flash out of the blue! Repentance on my knees a few moments later with my mom at my side .... pouring out my heart to God and to my mom ..... understanding of sin ....... understanding of my need of a Savior...... resulted in me turning my life over to God and my relationship with Him began that evening. I was forever changed! And after that my heart and my mind and my soul belonged to Him.

I didn't receive my own personal Pentecost and spoke in tongues until I was 15. Not because I hadn't asked and prayed and sought and tarried for it hard enough or long enough. LOL. For some reason (fear mostly of it being "me" and not the Holy Ghost) I just had a hard time letting go and surrendering to that degree.