Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by DanielR

Although the laws says what the law says, I find this entire issue and the responses of Christian people troubling when compared to what God allowed and in some cases commanded in the Old Testament.

Again I'm not speaking American law here. According to Jewish traditions children are considered adults at the age of 13, thus the reason for the coming of age ceremonies that is the custom of the Jewish people since they left Egypt (if not before). Even as late as the 19th century right here in America it was common practice to marry off the daughters while they were yet teens (as these young ladies are) Although I haven't studied it out for myself, but I understand that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was probably in her early teens, possibly as young as 12 when she gave birth to the Lord. If that is the case, at what age does God say a child becomes a young adult?

As far as polygamy, just by reading the old testament it's plain to see that God permits the practice, and in at least one occation in the law, it is a command. "If your brother dies without children then you are to take his wife as your own and raise up children unto your brother" As God was dealing with David over the adultry and murder concidering Bathsheba, God said to David "if you had asked for more wives, would not I have given them to you" at this time David already had multiple wives. There is nowhere in scripture where God says that polygomy is no longer permitted. There are two scriptures in the new testament that state "man of one wife", but both of those references are about leadership in the church. One is talking about the office of Bishop, and the other the office of Deacon. Men desiring those positions need to be able to display their leadership qualities, which having a family in control speaks to, but also not too much responsability at home to prevent them from fullfilling the desired office.

Another common practice was arranged marriages. Just this weekend I talked to a Jewish man that is in an arranged marriage 25 years strong, arranged by the grandparents of both him and his wife. It is a marriage by God himself. After 25 years he can't remember having a serious disagreement with his wife, yes a small one here or there but nothing serious. I've gone through a divorce, and although I do not regret any time that I had with the wife of my youth, I think that I would have been spared the trouble that I had in marriage if I had my parents arrange my marriage for me. As crass as it sounds, young people think with their hormones, while their parents look at the big picture and have the experience to see the possible problems before they even begin. I'm trying to think of a biblical reference to a marriage that comes close to what we currently have, the closest two that I can think of is 1)where Sampson asked his parents to get Delilah for him. Although, his parents disaproved of this, they relented and got Delilah for him. 2)Jacob in his deisre of Rachel, but he had to marry Leah to get the prise he wanted, but Jacob was making the deals with the gils' father and not the girls themselves. So even those examples are still arranged marriages. There may in fact be example of marriages simular to what we currently have, but I'm just not thinking of any with clear biblical references.

Too often we look at things through the eye of our society, and not through the eyes of what God did and does say about it. Contrary to popular belief, American laws and society do not reflect Gods law or what he has allowed to insure that every woman has a good man to cling to (whether or not he has another wife besides)

But American Law says some things different, and that's the law of the land. But I don't understand the outcry from Christians about this practice when it's no different that what was practiced in the Bible.

Daniel

I am assuming you are a man by your name, go figure. So you are saying that God condones rape of children? The parents didn't arrange the (marriages), Mr. Jeffs did although apparently the parents went along with it.
If he arranged marriages between adults it would be different. And of course he got rid of the young boys so there wouldn't be any hormonal problems as you referred to, but rather older men lusting after young girls, but of course they were only doing it to propagate polygamy and God's laws. Is that your argument? Or did I miss something?

[DanielR]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

I am assuming you are a man by your name, go figure. So you are saying that God condones rape of children? The parents didn't arrange the (marriages), Mr. Jeffs did although apparently the parents went along with it.
If he arranged marriages between adults it would be different. And of course he got rid of the young boys so there wouldn't be any hormonal problems as you referred to, but rather older men lusting after young girls, but of course they were only doing it to propagate polygamy and God's laws. Is that your argument? Or did I miss something?

Yes, of course I'm a man. But don't think that I personally approve of their practice because of my biblical and human history post. I said nothing about forced rape, or forced marriage. But was addressing the outcry to polygamy, arranged marriages and marrying at the young age. I don't pretend to know anything about the FCJCLDS. So I don't know how their system works, however, as I talked to the Jewish man I reference earlier I found out that not only was his grandparents involved, but so was his Rabbi and so was her Rabbi. The choice had been made when he was six. The couple had never met before he was 22, and they married when he was 25. No matter how we think about it, that's the way it works. People around the couple all work together to find the ideal mate for the young man (or woman as the case may be) Chances are there are more people involved in arranged marriages that the parents and religous leaders, although they are the major players in finding the right mate.