Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Kae

They tried in 1953 and after 2 years everyone went back to the compound free. This was such a victory that officials in Utah and Arizona turn a blind eye and even return children to abusive situations.

It's not going down like that this time around. Last time....

1. The media was involved and sympathetic to their plight;

2. The members looked like just about any one else (so the public was empathetic); and

3. Freedom of Religion mattered.

Today, there isn't just indifference to religion but even hostility towards it.

A government agency wants even the babies removed from their homes because of the beliefs of their parents not specific acts of child abuse they can allege about each member. THIS IS DANGEROUS GROUND.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Newman

It's not going down like that this time around. Last time....

1. The media was involved and sympathetic to their plight;

2. The members looked like just about any one else (so the public was empathetic); and

3. Freedom of Religion mattered.

Today, there isn't just indifference to religion but even hostility towards it.

A government agency wants even the babies removed from their homes because of the beliefs of their parents not specific acts of child abuse they can allege about each member. THIS IS DANGEROUS GROUND.

Right Newman & that is both dangerous & sobering to say the least!

[Kae]

Originally Posted by Newman

It's not going down like that this time around. Last time....

1. The media was involved and sympathetic to their plight;

2. The members looked like just about any one else (so the public was empathetic); and

3. Freedom of Religion mattered.

Today, there isn't just indifference to religion but even hostility towards it.

A government agency wants even the babies removed from their homes because of the beliefs of their parents not specific acts of child abuse they can allege about each member. THIS IS DANGEROUS GROUND.

I was really referring to Nina's comment on why the police haven't stepped in sooner. Colorado, Utah, Canada, and Arizona communities are all connected and the TX branch is just an extension of the these other communities. Over the years children that have tried to run away and seek help from authorities they have returned them even when there was child abuse. One girl that was returned was 13 and locked in a room for three years after the authorities returned her. This is just one example there have been many. They have even taken girls into the community in Canada to hide them. Many of the authorities in these other states are Mormon and even though they have rejected polygamy they still don't want to interfere with their religious beliefs. In Texas they don't have this history that the other communities do.

[Pressing-On]

Recapping the case.

I'm in favor of what has happened. What they practice is against the law of God and against the law of the state. Close it down and take the children away from their mothers.

Points:

Though Mormon church founder Joseph Smith reported in 1843 that God commanded plural marriage as a path to the highest level of heaven, the church disavowed polygamy in 1890. Several sects, including the FLDS, split with the main church and continued to practice polygamy.

The underage marriages were condoned by the girls' parents.

In Texas, it is a felony to have sex with a person younger than 17 if the perpetrator is more than three years older than the teen. Sex with any child younger than 14 is considered aggravated sexual assault.

"Religion appears to play little or no role in the allegations about practices at the Eldorado ranch. No religious belief held by an adult justifies any kind of child abuse. No religious belief allows an adult to have sex with an underage girl. One fear is that any children that you don't remove will be themselves abused, and the other fear is that any children you don't remove will be whisked out of the state, which both puts them at risk potentially and impedes an investigation" " Scott McCown, a former district judge.

Most of these children, like the young babies, there is no evidence whatsoever they were under any threat of being physically or sexually abused. You are removing children because 12 or 14 years down the line, they are gong to be sexually molested.

Leaving the Eldorado ranch families intact was not a viable option. Investigators found clear evidence of a pattern of sexual abuse, including 20 girls who had been impregnated between the ages of 13 and 16 and boys who were being indoctrinated to become adult perpretrators of sexual abuse.

State Rep. Harvey Hilderbran, R-Kerrville whose district includes Eldorado, speculated that law enforcement and CPS probably had a loose plan in place. Hilderbran remembers talking to CPS officials about the ranch in 2005, when he worked to pass a bill targeted at the sect that raised the legal marriage age with parental consent from 14 to 16. The bill passed.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Recapping the case.

I'm in favor of what has happened. What they practice is against the law of God and against the law of the state. Close it down and take the children away from their mothers.

Points:

Though Mormon church founder Joseph Smith reported in 1843 that God commanded plural marriage as a path to the highest level of heaven, the church disavowed polygamy in 1890. Several sects, including the FLDS, split with the main church and continued to practice polygamy.

The underage marriages were condoned by the girls' parents.

In Texas, it is a felony to have sex with a person younger than 17 if the perpetrator is more than three years older than the teen. Sex with any child younger than 14 is considered aggravated sexual assault.

"Religion appears to play little or no role in the allegations about practices at the Eldorado ranch. No religious belief held by an adult justifies any kind of child abuse. No religious belief allows an adult to have sex with an underage girl. One fear is that any children that you don't remove will be themselves abused, and the other fear is that any children you don't remove will be whisked out of the state, which both puts them at risk potentially and impedes an investigation" " Scott McCown, a former district judge.

Most of these children, like the young babies, there is no evidence whatsoever they were under any threat of being physically or sexually abused. You are removing children because 12 or 14 years down the line, they are gong to be sexually molested.

Leaving the Eldorado ranch families intact was not a viable option. Investigators found clear evidence of a pattern of sexual abuse, including 20 girls who had been impregnated between the ages of 13 and 16 and boys who were being indoctrinated to become adult perpretrators of sexual abuse.

State Rep. Harvey Hilderbran, R-Kerrville whose district includes Eldorado, speculated that law enforcement and CPS probably had a loose plan in place. Hilderbran remembers talking to CPS officials about the ranch in 2005, when he worked to pass a bill targeted at the sect that raised the legal marriage age with parental consent from 14 to 16. The bill passed.

PO, included in the roundup were families that do not practice polygamy. Still, the State has taken their children away. What happened in Texas is wrong. If the State has specific information on specific molesters that's one thing. Rounding everyone up, however, is another thing entirely. If Texas is allowed to get away with what they have done, a dangerous precedent has been set.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Rico

PO, included in the roundup were families that do not practice polygamy. Still, the State has taken their children away. What happened in Texas is wrong. If the State has specific information on specific molesters that's one thing. Rounding everyone up, however, is another thing entirely. If Texas is allowed to get away with what they have done, a dangerous precedent has been set.

I haven't read that "factions" of the sect do not practice polygamy. I'm in favor of closing it down.

If the leader of the sect is in favor of polygamous, underaged relationships then the whole compound needs to be dissolved. It's still against the Word of God and the laws of the state of Texas.

What I am uncomfortable with is placing the children in CPS to be fostered out. CPS is a mess and there are too many bad reports of abused children in the foster homes only wanting the money and not caring for the children.

I talked with a women, just recently, who is a caseworker with a "non-profit" organization that places children in foster homes. They do very extensive background checks and consistent follow up.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I haven't read that "factions" of the sect do not practice polygamy.

.

Here ya go.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080426/...st_retreat_406

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Rico

Here ya go.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080426/...st_retreat_406

Thanks, Rico. Interesting since this is what I am reading - "The sect believes polygamy brings glorification in heaven...."

"CPS officials say no more than 30 minor girls in state custody have children."

Hmmmm no more than "30".

"One FLDS member who did testify said she and her husband and their three children form a traditional family and live in a separate house from other sect members."

I'd have to know how that is working for them. Hmmmmmm...... living in and amongst a sect. Hmmmmm........