Right to Die

[Rico]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

I strongly support the right of the patient to make any decision about their care. The decision to have life support removed by a patient isn't as rare as some might think.

I may be wrong, but the only time life support is allowed to be disconnected is when the decision is being made by the next of kin and the patient is unconcious. I know that people have the right to refuse life saving measures, but once in place, I do not think a patient can have himself taken off the machines because it is viewed as being suicide.

[Pressing-On]

This is a controversial issue.

My husband's sister had a massive stroke a few years ago. She wasn't expected to live.

The doctors had us thinking they were communicating with her, in that, when she blinked she was saying, "Yes". When she closed her eyes, she was saying, "NO."

They had her saying that she wanted to pull the plug by blinking - The "yes" indicator.

My FIL said, "NO! It's too soon, we are doing nothing."

Just had lunch with her this past Sunday. She walked into the restaurant without her cane and was her happy self.

It's just controversial, at best.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

This is a controversial issue.

My husband's sister had a massive stroke a few years ago. She wasn't expected to live.

The doctors had us thinking they were communicating with her, in that, when she blinked she was saying, "Yes". When she closed her eyes, she was saying, "NO."

They had her saying that she wanted to pull the plug by blinking - The "yes" indicator.

My FIL said, "NO! It's too soon, we are doing nothing."

Just had lunch with her this past Sunday. She walked into the restaurant without her cane and was her happy self.

It's just controversial, at best.

Wow. Does she remember the eye blinking and what she meant?

[Margies3]

I'm here to tell you that the absolute hardest decision anyone can ever ask you to make in life whether to pull the plug on your loved one or not.

When Walt's aneurism ruptured, about 2 weeks into this, one doctor came to me and said, "You need to start thinking about whether you want us to turn off the life-support or not", then walked away. OMG!! This is a man who has already survived a ruptured aortic aneurism - something that doesn't happen! And he'd made big progress on the road to coming back to us. But still there's a long, long ways to go. And now this man wants me to make a decision about whether we "let him live or not"???

I AGONIZED over that!! We had children - a 16 year old and a 12 year old. God had already brought him sooooooooo far. I just couldn't say "go in there and pull those plugs". I just couldn't. I did agree that if they had to use the paddles again, they should not do that.

But then another doctor says to me, "I am NOT willing to give up on him yet. Please let him have 3 more days and let's see what happens during that time."

Hallelujah and thank you, Jesus, for that doctor! Because in 3 days, he was beginning to breathe on his own, his eyes were opening up and he had come light years!

And we all know how well Walt has done since then.

On the other hand, if he had been 80+ years old when this happened, would my decision have been the same? I don't know. No one knows until they are actually THERE. That's the thing I've learned from this. You don't know what you would do until you are in that situation.

So how can I find fault with any decision that anyone makes when they are in the midst of that crisis? I can't. It's not for me to judge. Only to love them as they are making the most agonizing decision they will ever make.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Margies3

I'm here to tell you that the absolute hardest decision anyone can ever ask you to make in life whether to pull the plug on your loved one or not.

When Walt's aneurism ruptured, about 2 weeks into this, one doctor came to me and said, "You need to start thinking about whether you want us to turn off the life-support or not", then walked away. OMG!! This is a man who has already survived a ruptured aortic aneurism - something that doesn't happen! And he'd made big progress on the road to coming back to us. But still there's a long, long ways to go. And now this man wants me to make a decision about whether we "let him live or not"???

I AGONIZED over that!! We had children - a 16 year old and a 12 year old. God had already brought him sooooooooo far. I just couldn't say "go in there and pull those plugs". I just couldn't. I did agree that if they had to use the paddles again, they should not do that.

But then another doctor says to me, "I am NOT willing to give up on him yet. Please let him have 3 more days and let's see what happens during that time."

Hallelujah and thank you, Jesus, for that doctor! Because in 3 days, he was beginning to breathe on his own, his eyes were opening up and he had come light years!

And we all know how well Walt has done since then.

On the other hand, if he had been 80+ years old when this happened, would my decision have been the same? I don't know. No one knows until they are actually THERE. That's the thing I've learned from this. You don't know what you would do until you are in that situation.

So how can I find fault with any decision that anyone makes when they are in the midst of that crisis? I can't. It's not for me to judge. Only to love them as they are making the most agonizing decision they will ever make.

A tough decision, Margie!!!! I'm thankful you had a God that was watching out for you all!!!! That is our consolation. I just pray His will be done or just ask Him to tell me what He wants me to say when I pray.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Rico

Wow. Does she remember the eye blinking and what she meant?

Sorry, I missed this Rico! NOOOOOO! She said she did not remember - at all. She burst into tears when we told her about it!!! She was fully covered by Blue Cross and Blue Shield. It's like the hospital didn't want to fool with her any more.

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by Rico

I may be wrong, but the only time life support is allowed to be disconnected is when the decision is being made by the next of kin and the patient is unconcious. I know that people have the right to refuse life saving measures, but once in place, I do not think a patient can have himself taken off the machines because it is viewed as being suicide.

A living will with a "Do Not Resuscitate" clause would dictate how a person would want any decision regarding life support to be handled when the time arose. Having this documentation from the patient would greatly relieve the family members from having to make that difficult decision regarding their loved one.

If a patient had demonstrated that they were in full use of their mental capacities when they were on their death bed and they were being administered life support even without a living will, then the physician would be hard pressed not to go along with the wishes of the patient.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

A living will with a "Do Not Resuscitate" clause would dictate how a person would want any decision regarding life support to be handled when the time arose. Having this documentation from the patient would greatly relieve the family members from having to make that difficult decision regarding their loved one.

If a patient had demonstrated that they were in full use of their mental capacities when they were on their death bed and they were being administered life support even without a living will, then the physician would be hard pressed not to go along with the wishes of the patient.

I am familiar with DNR statements. My MIL had one in place before she died. I was thinking about this situation with this lady who died. She was put in the iron lung at 3 years of age, so it wasn't her decision to make. What if, at 18, she had decided she didn't want to be in the iron lung anymore, knowing she would die when disconnected from it? Would it be considered suicide, assisted suicide, or would it fall under her right to refuse treatment?

[Sam]

I have a friend who is on dialysis because of kidneys which have failed. Actually, one kidney was removed because it was cancerous and the remaining kidney does not function on its own. He's been on dialysis a couple of years now. He spends three days a week at the place where it's done. It's uncomfortable and leaves him feeling very weak. A while ago a man who had been on dialysis just got tired of all he was putting up with and decided to stop coming in. He died not long after that. I don't know that man or anything about his spiritual state but I think he had the right to make the decision he did.

I was called to the hospital a couple of years ago. Actually, this was on a Christmas eve around 2 or 3 in the morning. A young lady had been shot. When I saw her, her head was grotesquely swollen like a basket ball. She was non responsive when I spoke to her and prayed for her. Her mother (who is the age of my children) had been asked to make the decision as to whether or not to "pull the plug." There I was with the mother and the grandmother (who was about my age) and they were looking to me as a minister for advice on a life or death situation. I hugged them and prayed with then and I told them that we had prayed and had placed that girl in God's hands and that the people at the hospital had done all they could. This hospital is connected with the University of Cincinnati and is considered "the best." Actually, there was no real decision to make as the folks at the hospital told us that she would not make it so they did not discontinue life support and she just died within a couple of hours.

[Sam]

Some people look at "pulling the plug" as an act of faith, completely putting the person in God's hands and trusting Him to do what He thinks best.