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  #31  
Old 06-09-2008, 06:31 PM
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Re: To Hell and Back

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico View Post
Maybe, but isn't he the one who coined the term "Gospel of Inclusion"?
That may be his term, but it is better known as universalism. I have had run ins with this doctrine before.
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  #32  
Old 06-09-2008, 06:40 PM
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Re: To Hell and Back

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico View Post
Maybe, but isn't he the one who coined the term "Gospel of Inclusion"?
Don't know if he coined the term, but he certainly popularized the term.

Its the same doctrine that's been long called the doctrine of Universal Reconciliation ("UR").
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  #33  
Old 06-09-2008, 07:47 PM
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Re: To Hell and Back

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRFrance View Post
Don't know if he coined the term, but he certainly popularized the term.

Its the same doctrine that's been long called the doctrine of Universal Reconciliation ("UR").
Carlton Pearson has gone beyond Christian Universalism to Unitarianism which denies the purpose for which Jesus died, for the sins of the world. Christian Universalists believe the cross of Christ is what reconciles all men to God, without which there would be no salvation.

So, I join Aquila in praying that God will reveal truth to CP, and that Christians while loving the sinner, do not embrace the practice. Rather we are to preach and teach the need to seek after God and to "live Godly in this present world."
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  #34  
Old 06-09-2008, 08:52 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: To Hell and Back

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico View Post
Whaddup, Yer Aquilaness? Where ya been the last few days? I haven't seen anyone even mention the word "healthcare"! What brings you out to play?
Been outa' town bro. Had a few meetings and an important event that I had to attend over the weekend. Now things are going to settle a bit and we'll move into the home stretch. I'll be leaving town for San Francisco on July 26th to attend a convention starting on July 28th. I'll be back on the 2nd of August.
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  #35  
Old 06-09-2008, 09:38 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: To Hell and Back

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRFrance View Post
Don't know if he coined the term, but he certainly popularized the term.

Its the same doctrine that's been long called the doctrine of Universal Reconciliation ("UR").
Crakjak is right. Universal Reconciliationists believe in a very hot and powerful Hell of torments. The Bible says....

Matthew 13:41-42
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (KJV)

Matthew 13:49-50
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (KJV)

Matthew 22:13
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (KJV)

Matthew 24:51
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (KJV)

Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (KJV)

Matthew 25:46
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (KJV)

Luke 3:7-9
7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (KJV)

Luke 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. (KJV)

Make no mistake...UR's believe in a very real Hell of punishment. UR's break with tradition in that they believe that in the dateless future, long into eternity, perhaps in eons beyond human comprehension, all things will be reconciled to God by the blood of Christ, and in that day God will be all...in all. They base this hope on the following Scriptures...

Matthew 5:25:-26
5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. (KJV)

Matthew 12:42-48
12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. (KJV)


Matthew 18:23-34
18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. (KJV)

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (KJV)

Acts 3: 20-21
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
(KJV)

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (KJV)

I Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (KJV)

Colossians 1:16-20
1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. (KJV)

Philippians 2: 10-11
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (KJV)

Ephesians 1: 9-11
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: (KJV)

I John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (KJV)

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, (KJV)

Romans 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. (KJV)

1 Timothy 4:10
We trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (KJV)

----------------

Carlton Pearson's book seems to indicate that "hell" is more of a state of mind than a state of divine punishment. Carlton Pearson has departed from any valid position of Christian teaching. We really need to pray for him.

As for UR....is it true? I'm not so sure. But I know this, in studying UR I've found a trust in God's righteousness that I never felt before. I feel assured that no matter what eternity holds...God will do right...

Genesis 18:25
...Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

I've had to fall on my knees before the cross and accept that I don't have all the answers and that I'm unqualified to judge....I have to leave judgment to the Lord.

If I find that, long into the dateless eternity, God has reconciled all things unto himself...I'll not be disappointed. I cannot feel comfortable advocating FOR eternal punishment (even though I teach it and have always believed it) merely on the grounds that it is so horrendous for my mind to conceive. I don't want to see my worst enemies or the most vile of sinners spend a never ending eternity that way.

Whatever the eternal outcome will be, I'm confident that God will do what is right and just.
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  #36  
Old 06-09-2008, 10:58 PM
crakjak's Avatar
crakjak crakjak is offline
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Re: To Hell and Back

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Crakjak is right. Universal Reconciliationists believe in a very hot and powerful Hell of torments. The Bible says....

Matthew 13:41-42
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (KJV)

Matthew 13:49-50
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (KJV)

Matthew 22:13
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (KJV)

Matthew 24:51
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (KJV)

Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (KJV)

Matthew 25:46
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (KJV)

Luke 3:7-9
7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (KJV)

Luke 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. (KJV)

Make no mistake...UR's believe in a very real Hell of punishment. UR's break with tradition in that they believe that in the dateless future, long into eternity, perhaps in eons beyond human comprehension, all things will be reconciled to God by the blood of Christ, and in that day God will be all...in all. They base this hope on the following Scriptures...

Matthew 5:25:-26
5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. (KJV)

Matthew 12:42-48
12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. (KJV)


Matthew 18:23-34
18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. (KJV)

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (KJV)

Acts 3: 20-21
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
(KJV)

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (KJV)

I Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (KJV)

Colossians 1:16-20
1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. (KJV)

Philippians 2: 10-11
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (KJV)

Ephesians 1: 9-11
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: (KJV)

I John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (KJV)

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, (KJV)

Romans 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. (KJV)

1 Timothy 4:10
We trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (KJV)

----------------

Carlton Pearson's book seems to indicate that "hell" is more of a state of mind than a state of divine punishment. Carlton Pearson has departed from any valid position of Christian teaching. We really need to pray for him.

As for UR....is it true? I'm not so sure. But I know this, in studying UR I've found a trust in God's righteousness that I never felt before. I feel assured that no matter what eternity holds...God will do right...

Genesis 18:25
...Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

I've had to fall on my knees before the cross and accept that I don't have all the answers and that I'm unqualified to judge....I have to leave judgment to the Lord.

If I find that, long into the dateless eternity, God has reconciled all things unto himself...I'll not be disappointed. I cannot feel comfortable advocating FOR eternal punishment (even though I teach it and have always believed it) merely on the grounds that it is so horrendous for my mind to conceive. I don't want to see my worst enemies or the most vile of sinners spend a never ending eternity that way.

Whatever the eternal outcome will be, I'm confident that God will do what is right and just.
If only the church at large could get such a vision of God's love and righteousness in all His dealings with His creation. The world would be revolutionized, we are way long on justice and very short on love.
__________________
For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)


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