Bishop G E Patterson - fussing thread (see other thread for nice things)

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Sorry, I don't buy into the whole 'baptism is optional' theory. I think to walk in salvation you have to walk in obedience and that mandates baptism as well.

So, if you think you're saved at receiving the Holy Ghost then I'll let you dwell in that 'tedious' place without argument for now... but do you espouse the idea that you don't have to go on to baptism if you intend to walk with God?

Again, you won't answer the 'can you be saved outside of Acts 2:38' question.

Sir ... can someone be saved ... prior to completeing THE 3 SEQUENTIAL STEPS ... let's say because their life is cut short? This has been our perennial question .... hasn't it???

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Sir ... can someone be saved ... prior to completeing THE 3 SEQUENTIAL STEPS ... let's say because their life is cut short? This has been our perennial question .... hasn't it???

Daniel, I like you. You're somewhat of a thinker. You're also evading the question: we're not talking about 'life cut short'. Surely Patterson's wasnt'! You and I both know that we're talking about, as I said earlier, walking with God and that takes time.

Forget cut short (for it isn't cutting the question short) and answer the question: Can someone be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Daniel, I like you. You're somewhat of a thinker. You're also evading the question: we're not talking about 'life cut short'. Surely Patterson's wasnt'! You and I both know that we're talking about, as I said earlier, walking with God and that takes time.

Forget cut short (for it isn't cutting the question short) and answer the question: Can someone be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?

Jesus said "if you love me .... obey my commandments" ... so the answer to your LEADING QUESTION is all of God's word is necessary for salvation but of course this is possible by grace, through faith .... A repentant sinner/believer will:

Love your neighbor
Repent
Judge not
be baptized in the name [authority and power] of Jesus Christ *
be good stewards
love thy enemy
etc, etc, etc.

as for

the New Birth, or regeneration, it is 'from above' {Greek translation}... it does not happen by obeying some sacrament to 'activate' grace .....

Furthermore, the baptism of the Holy Ghost is empowerment from God.

I'll leave God to do the saving AND JUDGING... while preaching the whole counsel of the Word.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Jesus said "if you love me .... obey my commandments" ... so the answer to your LEADING QUESTION is all of God's word is necessary for salvation but of course this is possible by grace, through faith .... A repentant sinner/believer will:

Love your neighbor
Repent
Judge not
be baptized in the name [authority and power] of Jesus Christ *
be good stewards
love thy enemy
etc, etc, etc.

as for

the New Birth, or regeneration is 'from above' {Greek translation}... it does not happen by obeying some sacrament to 'activate' grace .....

The baptism of the Holy Ghost is empowerment from God.

I'll leave God to do the saving ... while preaching the whole counsel of the Word.

Congratulations! That is the most well verbulated articulation given as an attempt to not really say anything that I've probably read in my whole life!

I notice that you don't say 'yes' or 'no'. I understand that you really can't and keep your present position intact.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Congratulations! That is the most well verbulated articulation given as an attempt to not really say anything that I've probably read in my whole life!

I notice that you don't say 'yes' or 'no'. I understand that you really can't and keep your present position intact.

My present position, Elder, is the Whole Word ... yours is part ... and misinterpreted at that ... JMO.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Congratulations! That is the most well verbulated articulation given as an attempt to not really say anything that I've probably read in my whole life!

I notice that you don't say 'yes' or 'no'. I understand that you really can't and keep your present position intact.

Yep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only way he could say less is talk more.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Yep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only way he could say less is talk more.

Still waiting on that scripture ... Elder.

[ILUVHIM]

2 Pet. 2.1-17
3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 ¶ I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, Ex. 12.51 afterward destroyed them that believed not. Num. 14.29, 30

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomor'rah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Gen. 19.1-24

8 ¶ Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, Dan. 10.13, 21 ; 12.1 · Rev. 12.7 when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, Deut. 34.6 durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Zech. 3.2

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, Gen. 4.3-8 and ran greedily after the error of Ba'laam for reward, Num. 22.1-35 and perished in the gainsaying of Korah. Num. 16.1-35

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 ¶ And Enoch Gen. 5.21-24 also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by ILUVHIM

2 Pet. 2.1-17
3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 ¶ I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, Ex. 12.51 afterward destroyed them that believed not. Num. 14.29, 30

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomor'rah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Gen. 19.1-24

8 ¶ Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, Dan. 10.13, 21 ; 12.1 · Rev. 12.7 when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, Deut. 34.6 durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Zech. 3.2

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, Gen. 4.3-8 and ran greedily after the error of Ba'laam for reward, Num. 22.1-35 and perished in the gainsaying of Korah. Num. 16.1-35

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 ¶ And Enoch Gen. 5.21-24 also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

The Swordsman's Replacement???? Aren't there union rules against scabs???

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Daniel, I like you. You're somewhat of a thinker. You're also evading the question: we're not talking about 'life cut short'. Surely Patterson's wasnt'! You and I both know that we're talking about, as I said earlier, walking with God and that takes time.

Forget cut short (for it isn't cutting the question short) and answer the question: Can someone be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?

No.