God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

No I don't think so. If you want to see what God the Father is like, look at Jesus. (Jn 1:18; 14:9)

My point is that there are aspects of God's character that you can't understand no matter how hard you try such as eternality, omniscience, all powerful, sovereignty, transcendence, immanence, etc. The greatest minds of this world can't understand it so how can you or me?

Ecclesiastes 8:16-17 - 16When I applied my heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done on earth, how neither day nor night do one’s eyes see sleep, 17then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. However much man may toil in seeking, he will not find it out. Even though a wise man claims to know,he cannot find it out.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

My point is that there are aspects of God's character that you can't understand no matter how hard you try such as eternality, omniscience, all powerful, sovereignty, transcendence, immanence, etc. The greatest minds of this world can't understand it so how can you or me?

Ecclesiastes 8:16-17 - 16When I applied my heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done on earth, how neither day nor night do one’s eyes see sleep, 17then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. However much man may toil in seeking, he will not find it out. Even though a wise man claims to know,he cannot find it out.

I agree with you. When I read Rev 4:8:

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. (KJV)

What I get from this is that these four beasts in looking at the throne of God are so enthralled with the majesty of God that at every turn they see a new dimension of God.

I think there is so much to the glory, majesty, and complexity of God that there is no possible way we could ever (at least on earth) comprehend the completeness of God.

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

My point is that there are aspects of God's character that you can't understand no matter how hard you try such as eternality, omniscience, all powerful, sovereignty, transcendence, immanence, etc. The greatest minds of this world can't understand it so how can you or me?

Ecclesiastes 8:16-17 - 16When I applied my heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done on earth, how neither day nor night do one’s eyes see sleep, 17then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. However much man may toil in seeking, he will not find it out. Even though a wise man claims to know,he cannot find it out.

God's word, as written by holy men of old, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, is absolutely true, accurate, and, infallably. However, we do not have any of the original documents (just hand written copies-many incomplete-some different than others). Languages have changed, word usages have changed, and some words are now archaic and no longer in our use.

Due to all these factors, no translation can be taken entirely at face value. You have to compare and diligently search out the appropriate meaning of many many verses. Man translated the Bible and man is not infallable. The KJV was inspired by King James I, of England.

I am not trying to take anything away from the Bible, I'm a student of the Book. I'm just saying that The Bible must be approached with and open mind and a true love for truth.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

God's word, as written by holy men of old, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, is absolutely true, accurate, and, infallably. However, we do not have any of the original documents (just hand written copies-many incomplete-some different than others). Languages have changed, word usages have changed, and some words are now archaic and no longer in our use.

Due to all these factors, no translation can be taken entirely at face value. You have to compare and diligently search out the appropriate meaning of many many verses. Man translated the Bible and man is not infallable. The KJV was inspired by King James I, of England.

I am not trying to take anything away from the Bible, I'm a student of the Book. I'm just saying that The Bible must be approached with and open mind and a true love for truth.

Why do you study a book you cannot trust??? How do you know ANYTHING is the Word of God? Isn't sad God can't preserve His word?! You seem to pick and choose your Scriptures. Keep some and deny those that you can't reconcile with your thinking.

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Why do you study a book you cannot trust??? How do you know ANYTHING is the Word of God? Isn't sad God can't preserve His word?! You seem to pick and choose your Scriptures. Keep some and deny those that you can't reconcile with your thinking.

I believe God is a God who is love, He is righteous, He is just, He cannot do wrong, He cannot lie, He cannot steal, He cannot do anything that goes against His word. THis is the nature of the God that I serve. Any verse that seems to contradict God's nature, is not conveying the proper meaning.

You would have me believe that a God who is love would make a man be born blind and live in that torment for more than forty years, just so he could get Himself some glory. You are are picking and choosing what you want to believe just like I am.

You would have me believe that God used Job as a guinea pig, and allowed him to be tormented in the most hideous of ways, (stuff like Saddam Hussain would have used) just to prove to the devil that he wouldn't crack under the pressure. God obviously was suffering from a rejection complex after Adam and Eve chose the devil over him. NO I don't believe that. The devil did all the that stuff, to Job, because Job had exposed himself to the devil, by living in constant fear.

You're picking and choosing what you want to believe about the Bible. Do you hate your family? Are you disciple of Jesus? It is written, that Jesus said unless you hate your family you can't be his disciple. Of course He didn't say that, He didn't speak English. What did he say then? He said you must put Him first, ahead of family.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

I believe God is a God who is love, He is righteous, He is just, He cannot do wrong, He cannot lie, He cannot steal, He cannot do anything that goes against His word. THis is the nature of the God that I serve. Any verse that seems to contradict God's nature, is not conveying the proper meaning.

You would have me believe that a God who is love would make a man be born blind and live in that torment for more than forty years, just so he could get Himself some glory. You are are picking and choosing what you want to believe just like I am.

You would have me believe that God used Job as a guinea pig, and allowed him to be tormented in the most hideous of ways, (stuff like Saddam Hussain would have used) just to prove to the devil that he wouldn't crack under the pressure. God obviously was suffering from a rejection complex after Adam and Eve chose the devil over him. NO I don't believe that. The devil did all the that stuff, to Job, because Job had exposed himself to the devil, by living in constant fear.

You're picking and choosing what you want to believe about the Bible. Do you hate your family? Are you disciple of Jesus? It is written, that Jesus said unless you hate your family you can't be his disciple. Of course He didn't say that, He didn't speak English. What did he say then? He said you must put Him first, ahead of family.

Larry, I do not do, as you are appearing to, cut out parts of the Scripture. I believe all 66 books are cannon and that none of it contradicts itself. It is clear that you pick and choose your hermanutic principles to fit your preconceived bias. If you don't like what the Bible says it MUST be interpreted or translated wrong. Amazing! What is your training in ancient biblical languages and the science of translation?

You reject the CLEAR teaching of Scripture that states that God allows and causes somethings to happen to humans because He chooses it for His reasons. You can't answer why He allowed the devil to torment Job? The Bible states that Job was an upright man and the devil knew that. God had to take down His protection of Job so the devil could get at him. Why did He create the blind man in his condition? Scripture states that it was not the blind man or his parent's sins but so Jesus could raise him up. Larry, if you believe what the Scripture actually states you cannot get around that. BTW, why did God allow evil men to kill His Son? What kind of mean father would do that?

All you have proven is that there are several passages in the Bible that you don't like so you explain them away. You have no rational basis for accepting part and rejecting part. You are trying to make a god in your own image and likeness. The same God Who is a God of love also has the ability to hate and Scripture, at least in my Bible, says that He does. I may not understand everything but I know better than to think that in my puny mind I can comprehend that awesomeness of a God Who creates according to His own pleasure.

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Larry, I do not do, as you are appearing to, cut out parts of the Scripture. I believe all 66 books are cannon and that none of it contradicts itself. It is clear that you pick and choose your hermanutic principles to fit your preconceived bias. If you don't like what the Bible says it MUST be interpreted or translated wrong. Amazing! What is your training in ancient biblical languages and the science of translation?

You reject the CLEAR teaching of Scripture that states that God allows and causes somethings to happen to humans because He chooses it for His reasons. You can't answer why He allowed the devil to torment Job? The Bible states that Job was an upright man and the devil knew that. God had to take down His protection of Job so the devil could get at him. Why did He create the lame man in his condition? Scripture states that it was not the lame man or his parent's sins but so Jesus could raise him up. Larry, if you believe what the Scripture actually states you cannot get around that. BTW, why did God allow evil men to kill His Son? What kind of mean father would do that?

All you have proven is that there are several passages in the Bible that you don't like so you explain them away. You have no rational basis for accepting part and rejecting part. You are trying to make a god in your own image and likeness. The same God Who is a God of love also has the ability to hate and Scripture, at least in my Bible, says that He does. I may not understand everything but I know better than to think that in my puny mind I can comprehend that awesomeness of a God Who creates according to His own pleasure.

Is R C Sproul your favorite calvinist author?

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

Is R C Sproul your favorite calvinist author?

No. He's a very fine 'populizer' of doctrine but not nearly my favorite. I prefer the puritans, the covenanters, and the dutch reformed along with the writings of Calvin, Turretin, Edwards, Augustine, and the modern writings of Van Til, Bahnsen, John Frame, and several others.

[ReformedDave]

Larry, Consider these Scriptures where it's clear that God uses evil, sin and calamity for His purposes-

Prov. 16:4-The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

Deut. 7:10- ...and repays to their face those who hate him, by destroying them. He will not be slack with one who hates him. He will repay him to his face.

Rom. 9:17-18 - For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

John 9:1-3- As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

Lam. 3:1-3 - I am the man who has seen affliction under the rod of his wrath; 2 he has driven and brought me into darkness without any light;
3 surely against me he turns his hand again and again the whole day long.

Ps. 119:75- I know, O Lord, that your rules are righteous, and that in faithfulness you have afflicted me.

John 11:4- 4 But when Jesus heard it he said, “This illness does not lead to death. It is for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it.”


These are just as much Scripture as any about the love of God. They both describe the same God.

Of coarse if you don't like these verses .......

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Larry, I do not do, as you are appearing to, cut out parts of the Scripture. I believe all 66 books are cannon and that none of it contradicts itself. It is clear that you pick and choose your hermanutic principles to fit your preconceived bias. If you don't like what the Bible says it MUST be interpreted or translated wrong. Amazing! What is your training in ancient biblical languages and the science of translation?

You reject the CLEAR teaching of Scripture that states that God allows and causes somethings to happen to humans because He chooses it for His reasons. You can't answer why He allowed the devil to torment Job? The Bible states that Job was an upright man and the devil knew that. God had to take down His protection of Job so the devil could get at him. Why did He create the blind man in his condition? Scripture states that it was not the blind man or his parent's sins but so Jesus could raise him up. Larry, if you believe what the Scripture actually states you cannot get around that. BTW, why did God allow evil men to kill His Son? What kind of mean father would do that?

All you have proven is that there are several passages in the Bible that you don't like so you explain them away. You have no rational basis for accepting part and rejecting part. You are trying to make a god in your own image and likeness. The same God Who is a God of love also has the ability to hate and Scripture, at least in my Bible, says that He does. I may not understand everything but I know better than to think that in my puny mind I can comprehend that awesomeness of a God Who creates according to His own pleasure.

Sounds like talking points to me. Dave, let me give you an example of an apparent contradiction in the KJV, then we'll see how you explain it.

In (Jn 9:3) KJV says, that Jesus answered. "Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents:..."; then, in (Rom 3:23) it says "For all have sinned,...".

If these two scriptures, taken by themselves, without any interpretation, are not contradictory then I don't understand the English Language.