Have You Been to WWPF Lately?

[Tim Rutledge]

Originally Posted by Brad Murphy

I strongly believe that the anti-television folks place their anti-television stance above God Himself... this single, silly superstition against this communications medium is more important to them than all of the things that they have in common with other people of Apostolic faith.

We can talk about push-pull technology and internet filters all day long, but what it really comes down to is a double-standard. Every time you tune to a channel on a television either digital or analog, you are tuning to a specific frequency and you are subject to whatever content the owners of that frequency have placed there. Every time you go to a website, you are routed to a specific IP address on the internet, and are subject ot whatever content the owners have placed there. With websites, there is usually content from multiple IP addresses embedded in the sites, making you also subject to any links placed on a site. Filters as well as parental controls are available for both the internet and television, and those filters are based either on keywords or a black list that is maintained by someone else and subject to someone's else's "discernment" as to what you should and should not be viewing.

You can take college courses on the internet, you can take college courses on television.... you can take defensive driving on the internet, and you can also take defensive driving on cable television. If we bring in the "what about the commercials" argument, then that should apply to radio as well... if we bring in the "moving pictures" argument, then that should encompass video as well. I'm just trying to quickly touch on most of the arguments I have seen trying to justify the anti-television stance.

They have a few people with admittedly excellent vocabulary throwing around enough technical jargon of the differences to keep the non-technical people confused and unable to respond without studying the technology for themselves. The technologies are merging, as most people will admit. These people would rather wait until the merge completes so that they never have to admit they were wrong in making television a point of fellowship or sometimes even a salvational issue. All it EVER was, was a communications medium that could be used for whatever you wish it to be used for, just like any other forms of communication... audio, video, or written, bi-directional or not.

Br. Brad.. I do not question your sincerity and I am in no way trying to attack you personally. A majority of the oneness (upci) Apostolics have been against tv for a long time. The Church I attend teaches against tv, hollywood and any entertainment videos. Now that internet is here, is it ok to be entertained by hollywood. Home videos, and videos of news events and things that happen in real life.. are not the same as a story plot written by ungodly men. Being entertained to fulfil your carnal lusts, is, and always will be, wrong. A commercial on tv program which you see, is a lot different then a commercial on the radio, you hear. The difference? Seeing a 3/4 naked woman... and someone describing a 3/4 naked women. The eyes have a whole lot more nerves going to the brain then your ears. Your eyes immeasurably effect your heart and mind, more then your hearing does.
If you ever heard my Bishop teach, and preach, against tv.. you would probably see it differently. If things are not preached.. they generally are not done. I'm not sure why I'm on this forum. 95% of what I read here.. is not my brand of Christianity. I'm I better?... no... just blessed with great, balanced, uncompromising leadership. Just pray for us poor pitiful, narrow eyed fella's in the WPF.. maybe we'll get more spiritual and get a tv. What would be Verbal Beans position. Sorry I rambled a bit... I'm working a double shift (16 hrs).. and I'm a bit tired. No hard feelings. God bless.
TR

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge

Br. Brad.. I do not question your sincerity and I am in no way trying to attack you personally. A majority of the oneness (upci) Apostolics have been against tv for a long time. The Church I attend teaches against tv, hollywood and any entertainment videos. Now that internet is here, is it ok to be entertained by hollywood. Home videos, and videos of news events and things that happen in real life.. are not the same as a story plot written by ungodly men. Being entertained to fulfil your carnal lusts, is, and always will be, wrong. A commercial on tv program which you see, is a lot different then a commercial on the radio, you hear. The difference? Seeing a 3/4 naked woman... and someone describing a 3/4 naked women. The eyes have a whole lot more nerves going to the brain then your ears. Your eyes immeasurably effect your heart and mind, more then your hearing does.
If you ever heard my Bishop teach, and preach, against tv.. you would probably see it differently. If things are not preached.. they generally are not done. I'm not sure why I'm on this forum. 95% of what I read here.. is not my brand of Christianity. I'm I better?... no... just blessed with great, balanced, uncompromising leadership. Just pray for us poor pitiful, narrow eyed fella's in the WPF.. maybe we'll get more spiritual and get a tv. What would be Verbal Beans position. Sorry I rambled a bit... I'm working a double shift (16 hrs).. and I'm a bit tired. No hard feelings. God bless.
TR

Not your brand of Christianity...hmmmm...

I don't post much anymore, Bro. Tim, and seldom get into these discussions because they have been run ito the ground. Further, the opinions given by both sides will not change the mind of the other.

HOWEVER, your post has brought me out of the lurking stage...

Let me say at the outset that you and I are from the same State of MI...

The UPCI assembly here has never taught against television, rather using godly common sense...in other words, there is a knob or button on the clicker...turn it off if it is offensive.

For example, there are now commercials for men dealing with a subject that is quite delicate and is of no interest to me, so when it comes on, I simply change the channel. It's really easy to do...

It boggles my mind that people in leadership positions trust Saints to allow the Holy Ghost to guide them in every area BUT television.

They'll trust us to not go to places on the internet where we shouldn't or not engage in wrong relationships, yet when it comes to TV they think we lose all of the Spirit and are loosey goosey...can't figure this out.

As for the WPF, the founder of this org is my former pastor, and though I respect him in many ways, this new org is...something else.

They claim to not proselyte UPCI ministers, YET my brother is a UPCI pastor, not at all interested in the WPF, and they keep sending him literature.

They claim TV is not the issue, but it is ALL they talk about it seems.

The WPF website reeks with "we are not like you." And this "brand of Christianity" is okay?!

Sorry, but it doesn't meet mine...

I am UPCI by church affiliation and believe in much of the same principles as you, aside from the TV issue, yet that alone would probably put me in the same boat as some of those you place in the 95% range.

Wonder how the Lord views all of this?!

What does He think of families being split and divided, not to mention long-time brethren...brethren who believe the same Gospel message?!

I wonder what He thinks of all of this?!

[Threads]

Originally Posted by Barb

Not your brand of Christianity...hmmmm...

I don't post much anymore, Bro. Tim, and seldom get into these discussions because they have been run ito the ground. Further, the opinions given by both sides will not change the mind of the other.

HOWEVER, your post has brought me out of the lurking stage...

Let me say at the outset that you and I are from the same State of MI...

The UPCI assembly here has never taught against television, rather using godly common sense...in other words, there is a knob or button on the clicker...turn it off if it is offensive.

For example, there are now commercials for men dealing with a subject that is quite delicate and is of no interest to me, so when it comes on, I simply change the channel. It's really easy to do...

It boggles my mind that people in leadership positions trust Saints to allow the Holy Ghost to guide them in every area BUT television.

They'll trust us to not go to places on the internet where we shouldn't or not engage in wrong relationships, yet when it comes to TV they think we lose all of the Spirit and are loosey goosey...can't figure this out.

As for the WPF, the founder of this org is my former pastor, and though I respect him in many ways, this new org is...something else.

They claim to not proselyte UPCI ministers, YET my brother is a UPCI pastor, not at all interested in the WPF, and they keep sending him literature.

They claim TV is not the issue, but it is ALL they talk about it seems.

The WPF website reeks with "we are not like you." And this "brand of Christianity" is okay?!

Sorry, but it doesn't meet mine...

I am UPCI by church affiliation and believe in much of the same principles as you, aside from the TV issue, yet that alone would probably put me in the same boat as some of those you place in the 95% range.

Wonder how the Lord views all of this?!

What does He think of families being split and divided, not to mention long-time brethren...brethren who believe the same Gospel message?!

I wonder what He thinks of all of this?!

Hey Barb, Good post. I have to agree with most of what you have said. I am not going into all the small details as I don't want to get stuck in this drag out, knock out thread. I have sat under two of the commitee members. Knowing these two men and the way they operate has really made me take notice and change some of my train of thought. I think you will agree that something has changed and it went far beyond the TV thing.
My wife and I noted a change when these men were a certain part of a certain conference in a certain place. Funny, the person who runs that conference is now independent, notice that he didn't sign on with this group. It was bad enough that the district split up out here. then this break off. All for what? There are many that are saddened, angry, mad at the way this was done. If you look at the leadership roles, most are filled by people from just a couple of churches. Talk about a self serving, put yourself in a top position because I am somebody just really sucks, to say the least. I could go on but will draw the raff of the know it all's on here, so I will go back on the sidelines.

[Brad Murphy]

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge

Br. Brad.. I do not question your sincerity and I am in no way trying to attack you personally. A majority of the oneness (upci) Apostolics have been against tv for a long time. The Church I attend teaches against tv, hollywood and any entertainment videos. Now that internet is here, is it ok to be entertained by hollywood. Home videos, and videos of news events and things that happen in real life.. are not the same as a story plot written by ungodly men. Being entertained to fulfil your carnal lusts, is, and always will be, wrong. A commercial on tv program which you see, is a lot different then a commercial on the radio, you hear. The difference? Seeing a 3/4 naked woman... and someone describing a 3/4 naked women. The eyes have a whole lot more nerves going to the brain then your ears. Your eyes immeasurably effect your heart and mind, more then your hearing does.
If you ever heard my Bishop teach, and preach, against tv.. you would probably see it differently. If things are not preached.. they generally are not done. I'm not sure why I'm on this forum. 95% of what I read here.. is not my brand of Christianity. I'm I better?... no... just blessed with great, balanced, uncompromising leadership. Just pray for us poor pitiful, narrow eyed fella's in the WPF.. maybe we'll get more spiritual and get a tv. What would be Verbal Beans position. Sorry I rambled a bit... I'm working a double shift (16 hrs).. and I'm a bit tired. No hard feelings. God bless.
TR

No offense taken... like I said in my previous response, was just getting it out of my system. By the way, you can just call me Brad... I don't use titles on others and don't expect them to be used on me. I am pretty familiar with the Pentecostal culture, having grown up in the UPC and being a PK myself... I'm part of the evil Murphy family that L.E. Westberg said came up to Kansas to get rid of all their standards because we rented a skating rink and the YMCA for the church people to swim in (no mixed bathing...).

Also - I find the written word more stimulating than pictures... you can imagine anything, and as spectacular as airbrushing and special effects are, I can usually think of something even more intense, etc. than any picture, moving or otherwise. Although I do understand that there is some book out that the ultra-cons (my label) like that talks about moving pictures being more stimulating, but I haven't had a chance to read it yet... it would probably just annoy me so I'll have to be really bored.

[Barb]

One more thing, Bro. Tim...you stated that you don't know why you are on this forum. Well, I can tell you why...

Your are here for the same reason I keep returning...this is an Apostolic forum and you are Apostolic.

Now I will be the first to tell you that I don't agree with everything posted on this board, but others, including admins, have made the same claim.

But you know, that's okay, because diversity is not wrong. It can't be, or else the UPCI has been wrong from its inception. The United Pentecostal Church, International was established on diversity, with the commom bond being obedience to Acts 2:38.

There are many today, as back then, who believed salvation takes place at belief and repentance, but is always followed with obedience in baptism in the Name of Jesus and Spirit infilling.

This diversity was not something that divided the brethren in 1945. My thinking is, if there was enough in common for a merger, and if Bros. Witherspoon, Fauss, Hanby, Chambers, and more didn't have a problem calling those of differing view brethren, what doth hinder me?!

You have a voice here, Bro. Tim, as much as those I strongly disagree with.

I hope your statement was a passing one and you will stay...

[jaxfam6]

My whole problem with organizations is this: SEPERATION. They create differences. Oh I can fellowship this church because they believe like we do. I can't fellowship that church because they allow Christmas trees or wedding bands, or (insert your word here). Stay with me on this, SOUND FAMILIAR? Sounds like racism to me. They would not think of discriminating against someone for the color of their skin but will on the ideology, not theology, of what one must DO to be saved.
I like what Barb said about the commonality of obedience to Act 2:38. THAT IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT, NOT RATHER THEY HAVE LONG SLEEVES OR CUT HAIR OR TV'S, OR PANTS. Do you disfellowship your whole family because they do not believe exactly like you do? I don't. They are my family and I love them.
If you believe that Jesus came to Earth lived among men, suffered strips on his back for our healing, being hung on a cross for our sins, and rose three days later from the grave, for our redemption, with the keys to death, hell and the grave then hopefully you will follow through with that belief and obey what is written. If you can do that I can overlook our differences and love you and call you my 'family'. You are my brother or sister in Christ. THAT IS WHAT WE ALL NEED TO GET TO THE POINT OF UNDERSTANDING. If we can then we WILL SEE THE BIGGEST REVIVAL EVER SEEN. When it is no longer about your church or my church. No longer about ALJC, UPCI, AAFJC, PAW, AMF, WPF, or whatever other organizational or church name we can add in here then we will have the MOVE OF GOD we all desire to see.

[Narrow Is The Way]

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

My whole problem with organizations is this: SEPERATION. They create differences. Oh I can fellowship this church because they believe like we do. I can't fellowship that church because they allow Christmas trees or wedding bands, or (insert your word here). Stay with me on this, SOUND FAMILIAR? Sounds like racism to me. They would not think of discriminating against someone for the color of their skin but will on the ideology, not theology, of what one must DO to be saved.
I like what Barb said about the commonality of obedience to Act 2:38. THAT IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT, NOT RATHER THEY HAVE LONG SLEEVES OR CUT HAIR OR TV'S, OR PANTS. Do you disfellowship your whole family because they do not believe exactly like you do? I don't. They are my family and I love them.
If you believe that Jesus came to Earth lived among men, suffered strips on his back for our healing, being hung on a cross for our sins, and rose three days later from the grave, for our redemption, with the keys to death, hell and the grave then hopefully you will follow through with that belief and obey what is written. If you can do that I can overlook our differences and love you and call you my 'family'. You are my brother or sister in Christ. THAT IS WHAT WE ALL NEED TO GET TO THE POINT OF UNDERSTANDING. If we can then we WILL SEE THE BIGGEST REVIVAL EVER SEEN. When it is no longer about your church or my church. No longer about ALJC, UPCI, AAFJC, PAW, AMF, WPF, or whatever other organizational or church name we can add in here then we will have the MOVE OF GOD we all desire to see.

My whole problem with organizations is this: SEPERATION. They create differences. Oh I can fellowship this church because they believe like we do. I can't fellowship that church because they allow Christmas trees or wedding bands, or (insert your word here). Stay with me on this, SOUND FAMILIAR? Sounds like racism to me. They would not think of discriminating against someone for the color of their skin but will on the ideology, not theology, of what one must DO to be saved.
I like what Barb said about the commonality of obedience to Act 2:38. THAT IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT, NOT RATHER THEY SMOKE POT, DRINK BEER, AND CURSE. Do you disfellowship your whole family because they do not believe exactly like you do? I don't. They are my family and I love them.
If you believe that Jesus came to Earth lived among men, suffered strips on his back for our healing, being hung on a cross for our sins, and rose three days later from the grave, for our redemption, with the keys to death, hell and the grave then hopefully you will follow through with that belief and obey what is written. If you can do that I can overlook our differences and love you and call you my 'family'. You are my brother or sister in Christ. THAT IS WHAT WE ALL NEED TO GET TO THE POINT OF UNDERSTANDING. If we can then we WILL SEE THE BIGGEST REVIVAL EVER SEEN. When it is no longer about your church or my church. No longer about ALJC, UPCI, AAFJC, PAW, AMF, WPF, or whatever other organizational or church name we can add in here then we will have the MOVE OF GOD we all desire to see.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Narrow Is The Way

My whole problem with organizations is this: SEPERATION. They create differences. Oh I can fellowship this church because they believe like we do. I can't fellowship that church because they allow Christmas trees or wedding bands, or (insert your word here). Stay with me on this, SOUND FAMILIAR? Sounds like racism to me. They would not think of discriminating against someone for the color of their skin but will on the ideology, not theology, of what one must DO to be saved.
I like what Barb said about the commonality of obedience to Act 2:38. THAT IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT, NOT RATHER THEY SMOKE POT, DRINK BEER, AND CURSE. Do you disfellowship your whole family because they do not believe exactly like you do? I don't. They are my family and I love them.
If you believe that Jesus came to Earth lived among men, suffered strips on his back for our healing, being hung on a cross for our sins, and rose three days later from the grave, for our redemption, with the keys to death, hell and the grave then hopefully you will follow through with that belief and obey what is written. If you can do that I can overlook our differences and love you and call you my 'family'. You are my brother or sister in Christ. THAT IS WHAT WE ALL NEED TO GET TO THE POINT OF UNDERSTANDING. If we can then we WILL SEE THE BIGGEST REVIVAL EVER SEEN. When it is no longer about your church or my church. No longer about ALJC, UPCI, AAFJC, PAW, AMF, WPF, or whatever other organizational or church name we can add in here then we will have the MOVE OF GOD we all desire to see.

those don't have to be part of an organization.

An organization is to not have the opposite, disorganization or even chaos. Organizations when done right are good things

[Tim Rutledge]

PtL. Everbody.. My thoughts... If your Pastor allows you to have and watch tv, its not my business to try to change you, or judge you. Barb, I appreciate your good attitude. Typing on this forum is really not my thing. Contraversial subjects, I am going to learn to leave alone. And I guess when I say "my brand" of Christianity that strikes a nerve. I would guess most of you would, I hope, be against a bathing suit contest, for young women in the Church. If your not against that..your not even Apostolic. That is not my brand of Christianity. Now.. when I say my brand, I mean things I whole heartedly disagree with. Just like if you whole heartedly disagreed with the bathing suit thing, that would not be your brand of Christianity. Of course there are varying opinions on a multitude of subjects in Christiandom that make up "different brands". I have been taught against hellivision for 17 yrs., and you will never convince me it belongs in a saints home. I do believe in wholesome, family entertainment, and fun. And honestly.. if God would of planted me in a different congregation..maybe I'd have a tv too. But I had to bloom where I was placed. And I will hold fast to the traditions, and my teachings. God bless.
TR

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Narrow Is The Way

I like what Barb said about the commonality of obedience to Act 2:38. THAT IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT, NOT RATHER THEY HAVE LONG SLEEVES OR CUT HAIR OR TV'S, OR PANTS. Do you disfellowship your whole family because they do not believe exactly like you do? I don't. They are my family and I love them.


I like what Barb said about the commonality of obedience to Act 2:38. THAT IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT, NOT RATHER THEY SMOKE POT, DRINK BEER, AND CURSE. Do you disfellowship your whole family because they do not believe exactly like you do? I don't. They are my family and I love them.

Huge difference in these items. That all depends on some peoples ideas on the beer though.