Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?

[SoCaliUPC]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

Is he known as a conservative, moderate or liberal?

I will only answer this question like this.

If you are a conservative a moderate or a liberal....if you preach against something you better live by it. I know people who do not think TV is wrong and they do not preach against it. I would have a problem with them if they did. It is like a preacher out of our section one time who spent a whole message to the youth about the evils of going to a baseball game and what a sin it was...only for myself to be at a baseball game the next day and who comes walking down the stairs next to us? Said preacher.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by SoCaliUPC

This is more likely to happen.

It's just one of those things where it is like....I have a serious dilemna on my hands on what do I do?

I've even thought of going to one of the other ministers in their church (who I know) and give it to him. But....I am just going to seriously pray about it (and I don't say that as a cliche.)

Good idea.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by SoCaliUPC

I will only answer this question like this.

If you are a conservative a moderate or a liberal....if you preach against something you better live by it. I know people who do not think TV is wrong and they do not preach against it. I would have a problem with them if they did. It is like a preacher out of our section one time who spent a whole message to the youth about the evils of going to a baseball game and what a sin it was...only for myself to be at a baseball game the next day and who comes walking down the stairs next to us? Said preacher.

Do as I say & not as I do?

I hear ya.

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by SoCaliUPC

I will only answer this question like this.

If you are a conservative a moderate or a liberal....if you preach against something you better live by it. I know people who do not think TV is wrong and they do not preach against it. I would have a problem with them if they did. It is like a preacher out of our section one time who spent a whole message to the youth about the evils of going to a baseball game and what a sin it was...only for myself to be at a baseball game the next day and who comes walking down the stairs next to us? Said preacher.

[A_PoMo]

Well, I could argue that none of these things this guy has done are necessarily sinful, even if they're unwise and in poor taste. But I realize that many 'sins' are contextual and cultural and in the context and culture of the UPC that they are considered sin so you gotta deal with that reality.

If I barely knew the guy I'd certainly not be so presumptous as to approach him in person. You prob have little credibility with the guy and the person who approaches him must do so in a spirit of brotherhood, which assumes some sort of prior relationship of some intimacy and mutual respect or at the very least some sort of authority. Otherwise he'll most likely be defensive and may make you a target.

I too wonder why you were sent these photos, especially if you barely know him and don't attend his church. Isn't that just smutty high tech gossip? If you're gonna nail this dude I'd certainly be consistent and nail the person spreading the gossip as a gossiper and talebearer. The Bible has plenty to say about those sins that divide the fellowship of brethren. In my view, this sin is much more serious than drinking, dancing, and flipping a bird. But I won't hold my breath that somebody will actually attempt to hold this gossiper accountable for their sin.

With all that said, I'd also consider that maybe this guys was in some sort of spiritual/emotional valley and it was a momentary lapse of judgement on his part. Certainly all of us in the ministry have been there more than once. It goes with the territory and we all have warts. According to XXXChurch most ministers would be in big trouble if the browser history on their computer were published for all to see. I know of a UPC minister recently who was in severe depression due to some personal attacks on his character by another UPC minister and he lapsed back into hold habits of drinking for a short time until he, through prayer and grace, was able to find his center again. He wasn't ever a bad guy, he was just flat on his back in the ring. He took the standing eight count, got back up, and is still fighting the good fight. He's a good guy and it would have been a shame for some, even well meaning, fellow ministers to 'expose' him like that and ruin his reputation. The kingdom is better off with this guy ministering in it, rather than having his character and credibility assasinated by his fellow comrades. Only barbarians kill their own wounded.

This sort of thing doesn't necessarily mean the guy is flawed in his character. Don't assume the worst. That's what they gossiper wants you to think. Be bigger than that and assume the best of the guy and try to help him if you can. If he has bad character then that'll become obvious. If not, maybe he just needs some respect and love from his fellow ministers who are interested in doing what Paul told us to do and that is to do this sort of thing with humility and love and always with the goal of restoration.

JMO.

[SoCaliUPC]

A POMO...

I am not into taking this guy down. It is a severe uneasiness. That is why I asked in the very first post, consider it to be a friend of yours and answer from that standpoint...knowing the position they are in.

I am leaving some details out. I am acquainted with the individual and am being very vague. (BTW...the person is NOT STMARK!!!!!! LOL!) There is some complicated circumstances that I am not getting in to. I just want to do the right thing....in an ethical manner...whether that be be silent to talking to an elder. I am in serious prayer.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by SoCaliUPC

A POMO...

I am not into taking this guy down. It is a severe uneasiness. That is why I asked in the very first post, consider it to be a friend of yours and answer from that standpoint...knowing the position they are in.

I am leaving some details out. I am acquainted with the individual and am being very vague. (BTW...the person is NOT STMARK!!!!!! LOL!) There is some complicated circumstances that I am not getting in to. I just want to do the right thing....in an ethical manner...whether that be be silent to talking to an elder. I am in serious prayer.

If you're a good friend and have a solid relationship then I'd say you have the right, and even the duty, to talk to him as a friend and in love and humility. If your friends can't talk to you then who can? That's part of what true friends are for isn't it?

I appreciate that you're being vague and leaving out details. That's the honorable thing to do.

I'm still bothered though about someone emailing this stuff to you, assuming of course that you're not in a position to do something about it. If you have some influence in the person's life then maybe it's appropriate to show you the photos. I thought you said you'd only met him a couple of times. I must have misunderstood.

You're in a tough position. I hope you find the way of wisdom and loving mercy.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Go to them first ..

Then 2 witnesses ...

Give them a chance to fix this.

Then up the ladder.

This would be my advice too!

[TRFrance]

I think the worst thing that can be done is that this would be kept secret. It does the person no favors, nor is is a good thing for his family, or his ministry. Going to him might seem like a good idea, but he probably wont want the information passed on to someone he is accountable to. But if he's in a bad place spiritually, keeping this hidden would just serve to enable and facilitate his sin... and obviously there could be serious eternal consequences.

Obviously I would say pray and make sure you feel like God is with you in whatever you decide to do; but just based on biblical principle, I would pass the information on to his pastor or whoever he is immediately spiritually accountable to. At that point you have done the best you could do, under God. At that point just continue keep the situation in prayer, and leave it in God's hands.

[ReformedDave]

I wasn't me........er...a..maybe........