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[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Come on, nobody's defending these boys or what they're doing. They are definitely on the wrong track. And I don't care what you say, if your father (who was also your pastor) did the things that their father did, you might have lost confidence in church or God too. I think instead of condemning them, you might ought to pray for them. They have a long way back to the God of their youth!

Their dad could crawl out of bed, get up, and preach a flashy and catchy sermon almost without effort.

But when he preached revivals for us, you had a hard time catching him praying.

Berkeley's pastor, on the other hand, also preached for us.

That man prayed. I know, because I was young and spent a good bit of time at the church praying, and he was there a lot when I was.

He impressed me; the other fellow didn't, although he was the better natural orator.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

He impressed me; the other fellow didn't, although he was the better natural orator.

Jeff's[my husband] Dad is an AOG preacher...he was the sort who would preach a fine sermon, be smiling and friendly, tousle his kids hair and look like the perfect husband and father, then come home and beat his wife and kids half to death. Jeff's siblings are still twisted up over it, and Jeff has had to have God's help to get over it himself.

For kids, it's another dimension of mind-boggling when your father is a minister, and lives a double life. And children tend to believe that all other families have the same dynamic as their own, making it difficult for them to trust any other minister, or even God, as a result.

I'm not saying kids don't become responsible for their own actions eventually...of course they do...but there are some parents who are going to pay the piper when God holds them accountable for the damage they did to their children.

I imagine the devil is really pleased with himself for taking those boys where he has.... It's very sad. To me it seems impossible that they would ever find their way back, but with God, nothing is impossible!

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Their dad could crawl out of bed, get up, and preach a flashy and catchy sermon almost without effort.

But when he preached revivals for us, you had a hard time catching him praying.

Berkeley's pastor, on the other hand, also preached for us.

That man prayed. I know, because I was young and spent a good bit of time at the church praying, and he was there a lot when I was.

He impressed me; the other fellow didn't, although he was the better natural orator.

While I know nothing of either man CS, based on your observations it is quite telling that it isn't just in a persons ability to preach, but in their Character.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Ron

While I know nothing of either man CS, based on your observations it is quite telling that it isn't just in a persons ability to preach, but in their Character.

God spent a couple of chapters in Genesis dealing with the creation of the universe.

He allotted many times that many chapters to the story of Joseph, which really is the saga of a man's character being tried and built through adversity.

Character is THE issue. everything else being equal.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

God spent a couple of chapters in Genesis dealing with the creation of the universe.

He allotted many times that many chapters to the story of Joseph, which really is the saga of a man's character being tried and built through adversity.

Character is THE issue. everything else being equal.

Good post. I agree. However, I like it when a man has character, a prayer life, AND has good oratory!!!!!

I like them there "total packages" as they say here in Tennessee.

I do know of men who could not preach their way out of a paper bag who built great churches on prayer so you are right on the money that between oratory skills and a prayer life the prayer life goes a lot further and more importantly deeper.

[Old Paths]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

God spent a couple of chapters in Genesis dealing with the creation of the universe.

He allotted many times that many chapters to the story of Joseph, which really is the saga of a man's character being tried and built through adversity.

Character is THE issue. everything else being equal.

IMHO.

Joseph developed excellent character in spite of horrendous personal abuse from his brothers. Joseph didn't know what his brothers had told his father and could have spent a lifetime feeling abandoned by his father also.

I know personally a lady that was abused by her parents and brothers, but refused the crutch ("I was abused") that so many lean on when asked WHY their life is in shambles.

These guys aren't the only ones to grow up and find their parents weren't what they appeared to be, so have tons of other kids, but the others haven't taken to mocking the Church.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Old Paths

IMHO.

Joseph developed excellent character in spite of horrendous personal abuse from his brothers. Joseph didn't know what his brothers had told his father and could have spent a lifetime feeling abandoned by his father also.

I know personally a lady that was abused by her parents and brothers, but refused the crutch ("I was abused") that so many lean on when asked WHY their life is in shambles.

These guys aren't the only ones to grow up and find their parents weren't what they appeared to be, so have tons of other kids, but the others haven't taken to mocking the Church.

Good points. I certainly believe that once children become adults they are responsible for their own decisions, and God will hold them just as accountable as anyone else, no matter what their past consists of.

I do think it's interesting to observe, though, the level of "wildness" that emerges when children in a minister's home rebel, as opposed to those from a "regular" home...it seems to be much, much more extreme, especially when things were not okay on the home front.

I think that ministers have a double responsibility for keeping themselves in check at home, as well as outside the home, because they have to remember that they are pastoring their family as well as their church. Many times, that seems to be forgotten or neglected and home is a place to rant and rave and vent and let it all hang out, consequences be, well.....

A person in authority, such as a parent, can cause lasting damage to a soul, especially a small soul, if they aren't careful, and when that authority is magnified into pastor or preacher, so that the authority isn't just parental, but spiritual...well...there's the recipe for disaster. Add to the process that children have no choice but to endure such leadership, and can't, like a regular saint, remove themselves from under an abusive, immoral pastor because he happens to also be their father?

Hmmmm.

Seems to me that the qualifications for a Bishop weren't just light words and suggestions...I could name several ministers right now that certainly don't fall under the "not soon angry" and "not a striker" guidelines, and they've kept their positions for years...decades, actually. Those two things alone can really mess up a child. That's just off the top of my head. I think there's a reason that guidelines were given specifically for ministers...not because saints don't have to follow the same things, really, but because ministers have people--and families--depending on them for spiritual leadership and guidance and nurturing....

*sigh*

[CC1]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I do think it's interesting to observe, though, the level of "wildness" that emerges when children in a minister's home rebel, as opposed to those from a "regular" home...it seems to be much, much more extreme, especially when things were not okay on the home front.

I know what you mean. I had this friend P.J. and you should hear the stories about her and her sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

























J/K

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by CC1

I know what you mean. I had this friend P.J. and you should hear the stories about her and her sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

























J/K

PJ can sing,she can get down on it.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by CC1

I know what you mean. I had this friend P.J. and you should hear the stories about her and her sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*










J/K

Very Funny!!!!

Truth be told, though, if there were any wild stories shared, they would be about her and my OTHER two sisters...since I was just a baby when they were teenagers. They're all so much OLDER than me...about your age, right?

Any wildness that I may or may not have experienced would be unknown to them.