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07-30-2008, 05:55 PM
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Saved & Shaved
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SOUTH ZION
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Re: My Signature Diagram
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
It is true many Oneness folks are correctly called Jesus Only. It's bad theology but it’s what many of us have been taught. I remember a pastor explaining Jesus as the Father animating a human body. Oh how wrong that is.
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Ah, and the one where God threw His voice as a ventriloquist when He said "This is my Son..."
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07-30-2008, 05:56 PM
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Strange in a Strange Land...
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Island
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Re: My Signature Diagram
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
You are of course right and that is sad - because then the diagram would be wrong and I could not agree with it.  |
I agree with you and the diagram too. If one puts Jesus in the middle, Jesus being the flesh then they do not acknowledge God. IMO
__________________
"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
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07-30-2008, 05:59 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: My Signature Diagram
Quote:
Originally Posted by shag
I believe the Father is the one omnipresent Holy Spirit of God, so I'd probably have to draw a line thru the "is not" between them.
Where exactly could we fit the name "Jesus" in amongst it all? And how many times?
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Of course no one is saying that there are two Spirits, but look at it this way... are there not things that can be said about the one that cannot be said about the other? (meaning Father and Holy Spirit)
Even by definition "Our Father which art in Heaven" is a parental term, while the Holy Spirit, "he maketh intercession for the saints according the to will of God." See Romans 8:27
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"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-30-2008, 06:14 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: My Signature Diagram
Quote:
Originally Posted by shag
Where exactly could we fit the name "Jesus" in amongst it all? And how many times?
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The name would go in the circle of "The Son" who is God and man - the only way for us to approach God - the Door. It is also noteworthy, that when one says, "Jesus" (Yeshua - The Lord Adonia saves!) it encompasses the word "God".
This diagram only works in exploring the Biblical revelation of the Godhead, and the relationship between the Father, Son & Holy Spirit.
It falls short on showing the uniquness of the incarnation and how we as humans relate to God our Father, through Christ, by the Holy Spirit.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-30-2008, 06:17 PM
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Administrator
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Re: My Signature Diagram
I am anxious to read this thread and ponder the diagram. However it is something that requires more time than I have until this weekend. Hopefully then I can weigh in on this subject!
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-30-2008, 06:30 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: My Signature Diagram
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
I am anxious to read this thread and ponder the diagram. However it is something that requires more time than I have until this weekend. Hopefully then I can weigh in on this subject!
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Meanwhile souls teeter on the brink of heresy... 
If I were Thad I would say, "Have a terrible week!"
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-30-2008, 10:34 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: My Signature Diagram
We can find a few exceptions. Even the Son said , "I am with you but shall be in you" - a clear reference to the Holy Spirit.
Nevertheless, the terms are rarely interchangable and more often than not would do great injustice to the text if interchanged. Imagine if we said the "Father prayed to the Son in Heaven", or the "Father died on the cross".
I am thinking out loud here... is recieving the Spirit of the Father as an impartation the same thing as recieving the Father Himself?
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-30-2008, 11:04 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,289
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Re: My Signature Diagram
Well, I've heard preachers like Jeffery Arnold and Lee Stoneking jump and pirouette respectively, saying"
HE IS the Father HE IS the SON, HE IS the Holy Spirit, therefore, using Greek linear logic, if the HE they were speaking of is GOD, and God being the Father, and the Holy Spirit also being referred to as God, then the Father would also be the Holy Sprit and also the son accordingly right?
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07-30-2008, 11:21 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 268
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Re: My Signature Diagram
This diagram is reflective of what I believe.
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07-30-2008, 11:24 PM
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Accepts all friends requests
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Re: My Signature Diagram
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
What say you?
Does this fit into your theological construct of God? |
I would accept it as the construct of other believers, but for myself I always seem to wrangle over the details a bit. And this diagram is clearly of a Trinitarian view, though it does also point to the overlap between some Trinitarian and some Oneness positions.
I find the statements made by Jesus (especially in the Gospel of John) where He identifies Himself with "the Father" as being classic examples where the Bible itself "confounds the Persons..." For this reason, and many others (like the one Stephen cites above), I would quibble about the "Is Not" channels in the diagram.
That being said, there is a complexity in the Godhead that we Oneness adherents are not always comfortable discussing. For this reason I think the diagram is good because it challenges us to see beyond the easy and simplified formulas that we're sometimes accustomed to.
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