You make it sound as if people are required to go see a doctor because it's common sense to go see one. For people who won't see a doctor, it's a matter of faith of to them, even if it doesn't make sense to anyone around them. I've known five people who have gone out "trusting God." They chose to take that route, and it cost them their lives. For you to come along and refer to their beliefs as ungodly is an insult to these people's faith.
That is a risk I am MORE than willing to take! There is a knee jerk response to any common sense opinion among many of our people and the above is certainly a great example of that. NO consideration is given to the bigger picture which is this..Many people , especially YOUNGER people EMULATE such stupid choices and decisions thinking that they some how are as spiritual or what have you as the idiots that you mention above. They made very selfish self serving choices not considering the affect that their choice may have on others. That is a stupid choice and YOU YOURSELF point out what the cost of that decision was >>>THEIR LIVES! (Incredible that ANYONE could defend such a costly misjudgement, only in Pentecost!)
Just recently a Pastor died from the results of "Trusting the Lord" with a simple boil on the back of his neck, which became infected, then the infection went into his BRAIN and killed him. Do YOU think that the young men and women of that church and others in the area will not be tempted to EMULATE such a decision thinking that this was the SPIRITUAL decision to make? Do YOU think it is insulting to point out in the hearing of any who God might bring into contact with your voice that this was a FOOLISH, COSTLY ERROR IN JUDGEMENT? (Oh wait, you already kind of anwered that didnt you by reacting to my doing that....)
There are too many women with dead babies, too many kids with dead parents, too many wives with dead husbands too many husbands with dead wives to turn a blind eye to this false doctrine and fail to speak up against it. It is after all as YOU so honestly admit a doctrine that costs LIVES!
My mind goes back to an encounter I had with an evangelist who now pastors a very large and thriving church. He had just finished revival in a church that is given over to the kind of nuttiness that you seem to hold in high regard. I asked him how it went. He told me he will NEVER go back there again, they are guilty of innocent blood. I thought he was kidding, just a joke that didn't go over very well and said "What do you mean?" He then described to me his last night there in the Pastors home when they brought out the photo albums, and had a few pages devoted to a most ghoulish collection of photos. Seems the daughter in law who was "Trusting the Lord" had her baby at home shunning any medical care, (One of your noble choices I am sure...) And there were complications in the birth process. None of the "midwives" (read ladies of the church who "don't know nuthin 'bout birthin' no babies") did not know what to do, the baby died shortly after delivery, and the whole family gathered around the bed with this corpse of a baby all dark grey from oxygen deprivation , on a blanket, all of them with their hands raised in worship as one of them commemorated such a holy and tender moment of their "Trusting the Lord" resulting in the death of this infant with a camera. He told me that he wished he had just a little more gumption and he would have called the authorities on the whole lot of them.
The Knee Jerk reaction here being along the lines of "Do you mean to tell me that because my ____________ ( Grandma, Grandpa, Uncle, Aunt, Mama , Daddy YOU fill in the blanketc.) Failed to have wisdom in any point that they were WRONG??? HOW DARE YOU CALL MY___________________WRONG!!!!!
But the truth remains that WONDERFUL and HOLY People can make stupid errors in judgement and their memories are NOT well served by covering them up. God has given us quite a pattern of pointing out the good AND the bad decisions that people make. Not taking common sense care of your body which is the temple of the spirit of God is WRONG any way you paint it.
My question to you is how can you for even a split second honestly defend such ignorance? You must have a very skewed sense of the effect decisions made by a member of the body of Christ have on the rest of the body. Then again, you may not have a vision of the Church as a Corporate Entity but rather just a bunch of islands to themselves.
Don't know...don't care.... Very silly to defend LIFE COSTING ERRORS!
That is a risk I am MORE than willing to take! There is a knee jerk response to any common sense opinion among many of our people and the above is certainly a great example of that. NO consideration is given to the bigger picture which is this..Many people , especially YOUNGER people EMULATE such stupid choices and decisions thinking that they some how are as spiritual or what have you as the idiots that you mention above. They made very selfish self serving choices not considering the affect that their choice may have on others. That is a stupid choice and YOU YOURSELF point out what the cost of that decision was >>>THEIR LIVES! (Incredible that ANYONE could defend such a costly misjudgement, only in Pentecost!)
Your attitude stinks, TCSQ. My former pastor, and the others I have known that died trusting God, were NOT idiots. They were good people who chose to trust God for their health, even if He didn't heal them. It takes a lot of courage to face your own mortality and stick with your beliefs. I don't agree with their decisions to not seek medical help, but they weren't idiots for the choices they made. Talk is cheap, and these people walked their talk to the end. I have a lot more respect for them than someone like you who thinks it's ok to call them idiots and their faith ungodly.
Just recently a Pastor died from the results of "Trusting the Lord" with a simple boil on the back of his neck, which became infected, then the infection went into his BRAIN and killed him. Do YOU think that the young men and women of that church and others in the area will not be tempted to EMULATE such a decision thinking that this was the SPIRITUAL decision to make? Do YOU think it is insulting to point out in the hearing of any who God might bring into contact with your voice that this was a FOOLISH, COSTLY ERROR IN JUDGEMENT? (Oh wait, you already kind of anwered that didnt you by reacting to my doing that....)
Bruce Campbell was my former pastor, and he was a man of God who lived and died what he believed. Thatis the kind of example young people need to see; someone who doesn't turn tail and run when their faith is tested. I didn't like the choice he made to not see a doctor, but I respect him for being true to his word. He believed in trusting God for his health and did not back down, even when death was certain.
There are too many women with dead babies, too many kids with dead parents, too many wives with dead husbands too many husbands with dead wives to turn a blind eye to this false doctrine and fail to speak up against it. It is after all as YOU so honestly admit a doctrine that costs LIVES!
Again, this is an issue pertaining to one's faith. You don't get to decide how far one is willing to go with their faith.
My mind goes back to an encounter I had with an evangelist who now pastors a very large and thriving church. He had just finished revival in a church that is given over to the kind of nuttiness that you seem to hold in high regard. I asked him how it went. He told me he will NEVER go back there again, they are guilty of innocent blood. I thought he was kidding, just a joke that didn't go over very well and said "What do you mean?" He then described to me his last night there in the Pastors home when they brought out the photo albums, and had a few pages devoted to a most ghoulish collection of photos. Seems the daughter in law who was "Trusting the Lord" had her baby at home shunning any medical care, (One of your noble choices I am sure...) And there were complications in the birth process. None of the "midwives" (read ladies of the church who "don't know nuthin 'bout birthin' no babies") did not know what to do, the baby died shortly after delivery, and the whole family gathered around the bed with this corpse of a baby all dark grey from oxygen deprivation , on a blanket, all of them with their hands raised in worship as one of them commemorated such a holy and tender moment of their "Trusting the Lord" resulting in the death of this infant with a camera. He told me that he wished he had just a little more gumption and he would have called the authorities on the whole lot of them.
The Knee Jerk reaction here being along the lines of "Do you mean to tell me that because my ____________ ( Grandma, Grandpa, Uncle, Aunt, Mama , Daddy YOU fill in the blanketc.) Failed to have wisdom in any point that they were WRONG??? HOW DARE YOU CALL MY___________________WRONG!!!!!
But the truth remains that WONDERFUL and HOLY People can make stupid errors in judgement and their memories are NOT well served by covering them up. God has given us quite a pattern of pointing out the good AND the bad decisions that people make. Not taking common sense care of your body which is the temple of the spirit of God is WRONG any way you paint it.
A stupid error in judgment is calling others' faith ungodly. Shame on you.
My question to you is how can you for even a split second honestly defend such ignorance? You must have a very skewed sense of the effect decisions made by a member of the body of Christ have on the rest of the body. Then again, you may not have a vision of the Church as a Corporate Entity but rather just a bunch of islands to themselves.
Don't know...don't care.... Very silly to defend LIFE COSTING ERRORS!
I have no problem defending the faith of others, even if my faith doesn't coincide with theirs. I don't have the first problem with someone going to see a doctor. I've been to them myself. That does not entitle me, NOR YOU, to ridicule the faith of those who choose not to see doctors.
I completely stand by my position, I do apologize for calling people idiots, however idiotic their choices.
However the example shown in this matter by those you quote was HORRIFIC and MUST be spoken against as there are so many impressionable YOUNG men and women who follow said example. (You even refer to them NEEDING to follow that example! Can you see how DEADLY such a course would be??? I don't think you do.)
There is no glory in taking a foolish position, and no glory in venerating someone BECAUSE of the foolish position they took THAT LED TO THEIR ****DEATH*****.
You loved the man you mentioned, and I am sure he was a great man, I am not speaking against HIM but rather against the grossly destructive example he chose to give those who look to him and his life for leadership.
The course that is taken in this Trusting the Lord for your healing is NO DIFFERENT than someone "TRUSTING THE LORD" for their daily bread and sitting down by the dinner table, refusing to go to the store or to do anything other than PRAY for the Lord to feed them. And WHEN THEY DIE OF STARVATION (as they generally seem to do) and someone speaks up and says THAT WAS A STUPID THING TO DO DON'T EMULATE THIS" please dont kill the messenger because you dont like the message. The message is true no matter how much of a raw nerve it strikes with you.
I remember as a new convert the time a group of young people with cars came home from Youth Convention and they all testified how that On the way home the Holy Ghost moved so mightily in the car, one by one they testified how they talked in tongues all the way home from the meeting, and then the young man who was the driver of the car stood up and testified how that he had gone for Fifteen minutes behind the wheel with his eyes closed, and his hands raised and talked in tongues and DIDN'T TOUCH THE STEERING WHEEL OR EVEN LOOK AT THE ROAD FOR FIFTEEN MINUTES HALLELUJAH, THE LORD DROVE MY CAR THROUGH THE MOUNTAINS AS WE ALL PRAISED GOD!!!!!" The whole church took offf shouting and running the aisles until the pastor stood up and said "That is the dumbest and most irresponsible thing I have heard in years! You young people listen to me! Dont you dare take your hands off the wheel of your car and close your eyes when you are driving expecting the Lord to take over for you and drive your car! DON'T DO IT!" The trust the Lord example of those you reference is no different than that exuberant teenager, and just as deadly.
This is no different sir, there are impressionable men and women out there who need to hear just how foolish this decision is, it is NOT a matter of faith, ( which perhaps is why these stories end so badly most of the time as in the case you referenced.) Leaving widows orphans and vacant pastorships....it is a matter of anything BUT faith. Because FAITH MOVES MOUNTAINS...not bury people under them.
Sorry that you dont like my attitude, but it is high time someone spoke up and gave voice to the things that YOU YOURSELF said you did not agree with! You did not agree with them because our gut reaction told you they are WRONG. For the sake of the young people who will duplicate this grave error in Bible Understanding, get a voice! You dont have to tear down someones memory or good accomplishments, but dont pull the emotional reaction here, the end result of that whole kind of exercise tends to be a widow, and fatherless children. Please dont say my attitude stinks because I have the fortitude to speak up against this false understanding of FAITH.
P.S. to clear up the emotional reaction of Rico's reply to me, I NEVER called these peoples ***Faith*** UNGODLY. I did call the ***doctrine*** that they espouse UNGODLY and it IS as it leads to the untimely deaths, NOT DISFIGUREMENT BUT DEATH of many MANY people especially in that circle of fellowship that Rico references INCLUDING the deaths of many helpless babies whose parents have been led one way or another through the men you mention to NOT have medical attention at delivery and you MUST KNOW THIS!
Speak up about this error in judgement even if you chose to do so in more moderate terms, but again there is blood every where around this movement that claims to "TRUST THE LORD" of people who died needlessly because they had been led to believe that by refusing medical assistance they had chosen a HIGHER road of FAITH. Husbandless wives, fatherless kids, and ***I**** have a "STINKING ATTITUDE" because I speak up against that.
P.S. to clear up the emotional reaction of Rico's reply to me, I NEVER called these peoples ***Faith*** UNGODLY. I did call the ***doctrine*** that they espouse UNGODLY and it IS as it leads to the untimely deaths, NOT DISFIGUREMENT BUT DEATH of many MANY people especially in that circle of fellowship that Rico references INCLUDING the deaths of many helpless babies whose parents have been led one way or another through the men you mention to NOT have medical attention at delivery and you MUST KNOW THIS!
Speak up about this error in judgement even if you chose to do so in more moderate terms, but again there is blood every where around this movement that claims to "TRUST THE LORD" of people who died needlessly because they had been led to believe that by refusing medical assistance they had chosen a HIGHER road of FAITH. Husbandless wives, fatherless kids, and ***I**** have a "STINKING ATTITUDE" because I speak up against that.
Go figure....
missplaced faith just might be ungodly. the death of innocents certainly is.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
missplaced faith just might be ungodly. the death of innocents certainly is.
It most certainly IS and you know who the people who lead the saints to take these kind of stances are??? Those in leadership who proclaim that THEY are trusting the Lord! As I said in an earlier post there are people out there right now whose KIDS are dead because of this example in leadership! They THOUGHT they were taking the FAITH road, the SPIRITUAL road , but actually it was the road to ruin. Its not TRUSTING the Lord, its actually TEMPTING him. (Put that in your pipe and smoke it)
P.S. to clear up the emotional reaction of Rico's reply to me, I NEVER called these peoples ***Faith*** UNGODLY. I did call the ***doctrine*** that they espouse UNGODLY and it IS as it leads to the untimely deaths, NOT DISFIGUREMENT BUT DEATH of many MANY people especially in that circle of fellowship that Rico references INCLUDING the deaths of many helpless babies whose parents have been led one way or another through the men you mention to NOT have medical attention at delivery and you MUST KNOW THIS!
Speak up about this error in judgement even if you chose to do so in more moderate terms, but again there is blood every where around this movement that claims to "TRUST THE LORD" of people who died needlessly because they had been led to believe that by refusing medical assistance they had chosen a HIGHER road of FAITH. Husbandless wives, fatherless kids, and ***I**** have a "STINKING ATTITUDE" because I speak up against that.
Go figure....
Let's see. Did you also not mean it when you called these people idiots? Don't try to backpeddle now.
Let's see. Did you also not mean it when you called these people idiots? Don't try to backpeddle now.
See post 729. I apologized for calling them idiots, however the deaths that have happened due to their misguided example call for perhaps stronger words (And definitely for stronger actions, MOST definitely) than *I* have written and I think down in your heart you must know that.
See post 729. I apologized for calling them idiots, however the deaths that have happened due to their misguided example call for perhaps stronger words (And definitely for stronger actions, MOST definitely) than *I* have written and I think down in your heart you must know that.
TCSQ, I don't have the first problem with someone going to see a doctor. I also think some of these people die when they didn't have to. We are in agreement on that part. What I disagree with is calling their faith, this doctrine, this belief (whatever you want to call it) ungodly, and referring to these people as idiots for the stand they've taken. I think it's a very courageous stand to take. I've been healed of things when I trusted God over them, and I've gone to doctors too. Deciding which route to go is a tough decision for many Christians to make.
P.S. to clear up the emotional reaction of Rico's reply to me, I NEVER called these peoples ***Faith*** UNGODLY. I did call the ***doctrine*** that they espouse UNGODLY and it IS as it leads to the untimely deaths, NOT DISFIGUREMENT BUT DEATH of many MANY people especially in that circle of fellowship that Rico references INCLUDING the deaths of many helpless babies whose parents have been led one way or another through the men you mention to NOT have medical attention at delivery and you MUST KNOW THIS!
Speak up about this error in judgement even if you chose to do so in more moderate terms, but again there is blood every where around this movement that claims to "TRUST THE LORD" of people who died needlessly because they had been led to believe that by refusing medical assistance they had chosen a HIGHER road of FAITH. Husbandless wives, fatherless kids, and ***I**** have a "STINKING ATTITUDE" because I speak up against that.
Go figure....
I have enjoyed reading your posts on this thread. As a medical professional, I have seen what happens when people neglect their health, or the health of their loved ones.
The state has stepped in more than once to bring charges up against parents who's children have died because they refused to provide health care. I support that totally.
I wonder what the outcry would be if the children of these posters who think what you are saying is idiotic told their parents that they wanted God to provide for them and refuse anything their parents gave them or did for them. I doubt they'd be seen as honorable for wanting to trust God as they refuse the food their parents set before them.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
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