Witchcraft = medication

Esther · #1 08-18-2008, 03:40 PM

Rico you said "God gets the glory whether He heals someone or not".

How does God get glory out of someone dying???

Rico · #2 08-18-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esther

Rico you said "God gets the glory whether He heals someone or not".

How does God get glory out of someone dying???

God doesn't get any glory over people trusting him to the death?

TCSQ · #3 08-18-2008, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico

God doesn't get any glory over people trusting him to the death?

No God doesnt get any glory from people REFUSING to use their common sense and dying NEDLESSLY!

The Pastor and His wife I knew who BOTH died NEEDLESSLY leaving a little boy parentless did NOT bring God Glory!

Your Pastor dying NEEDLESSLY did NOT bring God Glory!

Those that die NEEDLESSLY following his example will NOT bring God glory!

The Baby in the photos down in Louisiana that died NEEDLESSLY did not bring God any GLORY!

DYING NEEDLESSLY such as from an infected pimple on the back of your neck by REFUSING medical treatment or of the REFUSING of an outpatient skin cancer removal or the REFUSING of medical professionals causing a badly botched home delivery and again NEEDLESS death not only do NOT bring God GLORY but actually quite the opposite, they bring him AND his church MUCH shame and cause many lost people to completely tune the TRUE message we have OUT as they estimate us to be DANGEROUSLY self destructive.

Please stop contending that it does!

What gives God glory is REAL BIBLE BASED FAITH that brings RESULTS not in DEATH, but in LIFE.

Ignorance is not now nor will it ever BE bliss no matter how much FAITH you put in it.

What more can one say? widows, orphans, dead babies THIS is what this doctrine leaves us with, and all NEEDLESS so sadly sadly NEEDLESS, what glory is there in NEEDLESS death?? Please some one find some so that Rico can feel justified in a very wrong position to contend for.

Rico · #4 08-18-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCSQ

No God doesnt get any glory from people REFUSING to use their common sense and dying NEDLESSLY!

Common sense says there's no way a man can die and raise from the dead three days later. Don't talk to me about common sense. Common sense according to who, man? I don't think so. There are a lot of things about this walk that don't make common sense.

The Pastor and His wife I knew who BOTH died NEEDLESSLY leaving a little boy parentless did NOT bring God Glory!

I have a feeling I know who you are talking about. You should be ashamed of yourself for speaking against men of God this way. They're not alive to defend their beliefs and you are busy trashin them on an internet forum.

Your Pastor dying NEEDLESSLY did NOT bring God Glory!

Again, you don't know what you are talking about. I give God the glory for the life he lived, the strength he showed, and the way he stuck it out to the end. So much for God not getting any glory.

Those that die NEEDLESSLY following his example will NOT bring God glory!

The Baby in the photos down in Louisiana that died NEEDLESSLY did not bring God any GLORY!

DYING NEEDLESSLY such as from an infected pimple on the back of your neck by REFUSING medical treatment or of the REFUSING of an outpatient skin cancer removal or the REFUSING of medical professionals causing a badly botched home delivery and again NEEDLESS death not only do NOT bring God GLORY but actually quite the opposite, they bring him AND his church MUCH shame and cause many lost people to completely tune the TRUE message we have OUT as they estimate us to be DANGEROUSLY self destructive.

If these people chose to leave the time of their death in the hands of God, then they should be commended for it, not NEEDLESSLY talked about.

Please stop contending that it does!

What gives God glory is REAL BIBLE BASED FAITH that brings RESULTS not in DEATH, but in LIFE.

Ignorance is not now nor will it ever BE bliss no matter how much FAITH you put in it.

What more can one say? widows, orphans, dead babies THIS is what this doctrine leaves us with, and all NEEDLESS so sadly sadly NEEDLESS, what glory is there in NEEDLESS death?? Please some one find some so that Rico can feel justified in a very wrong position to contend for.

It sounds to me like you don't have what it takes to go this route, so you want to slam people who do. Live and let live, Bro. This is a very personal decision someone will make. One that could lead to some very trying times. If Brother So and So has the faith to go this route, more power to him. If you or someone else doesn't, more power to you.

TCSQ · #5 08-18-2008, 05:18 PM

[QUOTE=Rico;569048] Live and let live, Bro.

Kind of ironic given the subject don't you think. And I am not the least bit ashamed of ANYTHING I have posted on this thread. BAD examples for people to follow will NEVER be justifiable even when done in "faith".

The fact that you "probably know" who I am talking about in another if not ALL of these cases points out another underlying reason this needs to be pointed out. This disastrous position is the basis for a circle of fellowship among some very VERY independent or rather "independent" churches where this is one of the DEFINING doctrines of their fellowship. It is this doctrine that is held out consistently in front of all their members as being as one poster called it "GREAT FAITH" .

The peer pressure and pastoral pressure to follow this example or be reckoned as NOT having "Great Faith" is immense. I have talked with countless PASTORS who either still are or were involved in this circle of fellowship and they have nothing but HORROR stories to tell. Again not just the ones OUT of it, but some still IN that are very much afraid of the more vocal men in your group that can and will do damage to their assemblies.

Slamming people? Well if by that you mean pointing out their disastrous LIFE ENDING error in decision so that others do NOT follow this poor example then again, I make no apologies neither do I feel the least bit ashamed. Do I feel terrible for the little boy whose mom and dad died needlessly ABSOLUTELY! It causes me to speak out!

Do I feel bad for the parents of the dead baby in Lousiana that lost their baby because their leadership had encouraged the whole church to follow this pattern? Not as much as I feel bad for the dead baby and the frame of mind you defend that CAUSED that needless death.

Why go on anymore? You have managed to turn this away from the FALSE DOCTRINE that I am adressing and turning it to the people who embraced it and by example promoted it.

(Ie the You mean to tell me My Pastor,Mother, Granny, Friend was WRONG! How dare you attack them! way of dodging the real issue...refusing medical help and dying needlessly is WRONG, BAD, ERROR, INEXCUSABLE. No matter how you slice it, this is one doctrine and example that obviously leads to death in the very people who you are holding up to us as examples . Where was their HEALING if that is what their FAITH told them was promised them?
again...widows....orphans....needless and sad. No glory for God, only more shame and reproach ........

#6 08-18-2008, 05:49 PM

[QUOTE=TCSQ;569074]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico

Live and let live, Bro.

Kind of ironic given the subject don't you think. And I am not the least bit ashamed of ANYTHING I have posted on this thread. BAD examples for people to follow will NEVER be justifiable even when done in "faith".

The fact that you "probably know" who I am talking about in another if not ALL of these cases points out another underlying reason this needs to be pointed out. This disastrous position is the basis for a circle of fellowship among some very VERY independent or rather "independent" churches where this is one of the DEFINING doctrines of their fellowship. It is this doctrine that is held out consistently in front of all their members as being as one poster called it "GREAT FAITH" .

The peer pressure and pastoral pressure to follow this example or be reckoned as NOT having "Great Faith" is immense. I have talked with countless PASTORS who either still are or were involved in this circle of fellowship and they have nothing but HORROR stories to tell. Again not just the ones OUT of it, but some still IN that are very much afraid of the more vocal men in your group that can and will do damage to their assemblies.

Slamming people? Well if by that you mean pointing out their disastrous LIFE ENDING error in decision so that others do NOT follow this poor example then again, I make no apologies neither do I feel the least bit ashamed. Do I feel terrible for the little boy whose mom and dad died needlessly ABSOLUTELY! It causes me to speak out!

Do I feel bad for the parents of the dead baby in Lousiana that lost their baby because their leadership had incouraged the whole church to follow this pattern? Not as much as I feel bad for the dead baby and the frame of mind you defend that CAUSED that needless death.

Why go on anymore? You have managed to turn this away from the FALSE DOCTRINE that I am adressing and turning it to the people who embraced it and by example promoted it.

(Ie the You mean to tell me My Pastor,Mother, Granny, Friend was WRONG! How dare you attack them! way of dodging the real issue...refusing medical help and dying needlessly is WRONG, BAD, ERROR, INEXCUSABLE. No matter how you slice it, this is one doctrine and example that obviously leads to death in the very people who you are holding up to us as examples . Where was their HEALING if that is what their FAITH told them was promised them?
again...widows....orphans....needless and sad. No glory for God, only more shame and reproach ........

If you have a lack of faith, then keep your lack of faith, but you shouldn't put down people who choose to have "GREAT FAITH" just like people in the Bible.

Rico · #7 08-18-2008, 05:59 PM

[QUOTE=Oneness Man;569113]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCSQ

If you have a lack of faith, then keep your lack of faith, but you shouldn't put down people who choose to have "GREAT FAITH" just like people in the Bible.

A to the MEN!

I don't have the faith it takes to never see a doctor, but I sure am not going to run down those who do.

Rico · #8 08-18-2008, 05:51 PM

[QUOTE=TCSQ;569074]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico

Live and let live, Bro.

Kind of ironic given the subject don't you think. And I am not the least bit ashamed of ANYTHING I have posted on this thread. BAD examples for people to follow will NEVER be justifiable even when done in "faith".

So, which is it? You do or don't apologize for calling good men of God like Brother Campbell, Brother Carrol, and Brother Chambers idiots? You apologized for it and now you are saying you aren't ashamed of anything you've posted in this thread.

The fact that you "probably know" who I am talking about in another if not ALL of these cases points out another underlying reason this needs to be pointed out. This disastrous position is the basis for a circle of fellowship among some very VERY independent or rather "independent" churches where this is one of the DEFINING doctrines of their fellowship. It is this doctrine that is held out consistently in front of all their members as being as one poster called it "GREAT FAITH" .

And I agree with him that it takes a great faith to be willing to die in the hands of Gods than trust in man's devices. I don't have that kind of faith, but I am glad there are people among us who do.

The peer pressure and pastoral pressure to follow this example or be reckoned as NOT having "Great Faith" is immense. I have talked with countless PASTORS who either still are or were involved in this circle of fellowship and they have nothing but HORROR stories to tell. Again not just the ones OUT of it, but some still IN that are very much afraid of the more vocal men in your group that can and will do damage to their assemblies.

This is bunch of HOGWASH! Brother Campbell never chastised anyone in his church for going to see a doctor. Nor did he tell anyone they didn't have faith for seeing doctors. He taught trusting God in this way very responsibly. Some people followed his lead and others didn't. Either way, no one was exalted or treated like dirt for their decision. He taught that if all you could do was trust God for a headache then trust Him with all your might.

Slamming people? Well if by that you mean pointing out their disastrous LIFE ENDING error in decision so that others do NOT follow this poor example then again, I make no apologies neither do I feel the least bit ashamed. Do I feel terrible for the little boy whose mom and dad died needlessly ABSOLUTELY! It causes me to speak out!

Do I feel bad for the parents of the dead baby in Lousiana that lost their baby because their leadership had incouraged the whole church to follow this pattern? Not as much as I feel bad for the dead baby and the frame of mind you defend that CAUSED that needless death.

You act as if going to doctors is a sure fire way of not dying from disease. I've got news for you. The medical profession is far from perfect. Look up the stats on how many people die in hospitals from diseases they caught while in the hospital for something else. Going to doctors doesn't guarantee anyone they will get better. Even doctors admit that they have no power to heal. All they can do is diagnose and treat the symptoms.

Why go on anymore? You have managed to turn this away from the FALSE DOCTRINE that I am adressing and turning it to the people who embraced it and by example promoted it.

(Ie the You mean to tell me My Pastor,Mother, Granny, Friend was WRONG! How dare you attack them! way of dodging the real issue...refusing medical help and dying needlessly is WRONG, BAD, ERROR, INEXCUSABLE. No matter how you slice it, this is one doctrine and example that obviously leads to death in the very people who you are holding up to us as examples . Where was their HEALING if that is what their FAITH told them was promised them?
again...widows....orphans....needless and sad. No glory for God, only more shame and reproach ........

What's shameful is that you can't promote going to doctors without badmouthing people who have chosen not to go to doctors and completely trust God instead. All you are doing is pointing fingers at others and saying your way is better. Your way isn't better. It's just an option that people have before them.