Free will versus reality!

clgustaveson · #1 10-14-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Fair enough... So what is the question your wanting to ask? If your wanting a 100% pure Arminian answer- I'm your man! If you want to go in psychological rabbit trails, try Freud's Interpretation of Dreams...

-Bro. Alex

Excuse me?

This is no place to be making uncalled for blows to someones profession.

I am asking you a question because you are Arminian in your views and a Calvinist would not be able to answer this because of their views.

Because you believe in free will of the human, how much of that free will do you believe is dictated by conditioning, in other words how much of that free will do you believe is limited by precepts cause by rewards and punishment?

Sept5SavedTeen · #2 10-14-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

Excuse me?

This is no place to be making uncalled for blows to someones profession.

I am asking you a question because you are Arminian in your views and a Calvinist would not be able to answer this because of their views.

Because you believe in free will of the human, how much of that free will do you believe is dictated by conditioning, in other words how much of that free will do you believe is limited by precepts cause by rewards and punishment?

I was not bashing you, I just felt you were not being specific enough in your questioning. I'm at a computer lounge in my college now, and someone is needing to use this computer, so I have to go, but I will post later.

-Bro. Alex

clgustaveson · #3 10-14-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

I was not bashing you, I just felt you were not being specific enough in your questioning. I'm at a computer lounge in my college now, and someone is needing to use this computer, so I have to go, but I will post later.

-Bro. Alex

Normally when someone is asking for a more specific question they don't start telling them to ask someone else... It's not my fault you don't understand the question... just ask for me to be more specific.

Sept5SavedTeen · #4 10-14-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

Excuse me?

This is no place to be making uncalled for blows to someones profession.

I am asking you a question because you are Arminian in your views and a Calvinist would not be able to answer this because of their views.

Because you believe in free will of the human, how much of that free will do you believe is dictated by conditioning, in other words how much of that free will do you believe is limited by precepts cause by rewards and punishment?

Those things are affected by however much their free will allows them to be affected by these things. I was raised in a non-religious (for the most part) household, and my conditioning should have led me to some mixture of agnosticism-Congregationalism, but I, in my free will, sought the LORD, and the LORD drew me to HIMSELF and here I am today.

-Bro. Alex

clgustaveson · #5 10-14-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Those things are affected by however much their free will allows them to be affected by these things. I was raised in a non-religious (for the most part) household, and my conditioning should have led me to some mixture of agnosticism-Congregationalism, but I, in my free will, sought the LORD, and the LORD drew me to HIMSELF and here I am today.

-Bro. Alex

You are making some unnecessary assumptions and also going against the Arminian view... if God drew you to him then you had no free will in the matter. Sorry to burst you 100% Arminian bubble.

Just because your family was not religious doesn't mean that you were not conditioned to attend church... the point of my argument has nothing to with with your salvation but your lifestyle.... If heaven is a reward then that is a the ultimate reward... anyway my question is how much of your life is dictated by punishment and reward AKA functionality?

All4one · #6 10-14-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

the point of my argument has nothing to with with your salvation but your lifestyle.... If heaven is a reward then that is a the ultimate reward... anyway my question is how much of your life is dictated by punishment and reward AKA functionality?

Why would their be a reward for something we have no choice in?

clgustaveson · #7 10-14-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All4one

Why would their be a reward for something we have no choice in?

And this is why I asked the Calvinists to stay out of this one...

Sept5SavedTeen · #8 10-14-2008, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

You are making some unnecessary assumptions and also going against the Arminian view... if God drew you to him then you had no free will in the matter. Sorry to burst you 100% Arminian bubble.

Just because your family was not religious doesn't mean that you were not conditioned to attend church... the point of my argument has nothing to with with your salvation but your lifestyle.... If heaven is a reward then that is a the ultimate reward... anyway my question is how much of your life is dictated by punishment and reward AKA functionality?

HE didn't irresistibly draw me- I could have rejected HIS drawing and that would have been an exercise of my free will, just like accepting his drawing was an exercise of my free will.

Also, as for your last question, it's still free will that's happening in the decision I make to want to avoid punishment and gain a reward. I mean I know people with no fear of hell (due to their lack of understanding or love for their sin) or people deceived into thinking they won't go to hell, but their free will is still in effect, they just happen to be people who are opposing themselves.

-Bro. Alex

Steve Epley · #9 10-14-2008, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

HE didn't irresistibly draw me- I could have rejected HIS drawing and that would have been an exercise of my free will, just like accepting his drawing was an exercise of my free will.

Also, as for your last question, it's still free will that's happening in the decision I make to want to avoid punishment and gain a reward. I mean I know people with no fear of hell (due to their lack of understanding or love for their sin) or people deceived into thinking they won't go to hell, but their free will is still in effect, they just happen to be people who are opposing themselves.

-Bro. Alex

Jesus said "....how often would I have gathered ......YE WOULD NOT" Mt. 23:37 they resisted .
Also ".....and YE WILL NOT COME me, that ye might have life." Jn.5:40
Paul said "...seeing YE put it from you, and judge YOURSELVES unworthy of everlasting life." Acs 13:46

clgustaveson · #10 10-15-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Jesus said "....how often would I have gathered ......YE WOULD NOT" Mt. 23:37 they resisted .
Also ".....and YE WILL NOT COME me, that ye might have life." Jn.5:40
Paul said "...seeing YE put it from you, and judge YOURSELVES unworthy of everlasting life." Acs 13:46

These scriptures are arguing Arminianism, not the control your mind has over your actions... This is why I ignored them.

I am not wanting to get into the scriptural context of religiosity here, what I want to know is how many people really feel they are in control of their actions or if people believe their actions are dictated by a function.