2 swats puts Dad in court

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

By law you can swat a child on the buttocks or upper legs with an open hand. You cannot leave a mark and are never allowed to slap a child in the face.

I thought the law on this was governed by the state and could be different from state to state.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

WOW! I know wisdom when I see it and you are full of it Miss B
Thanx for a great post.

not sure what your full of but it is a lot of it.

[joyful]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Here's a sad case. I know of a 20 yr old upc raised young man who spanked his 2 yr old daughter. apparently to hard. The closed fist to the thigh broke her leg.

I visited this kid in county jail for over a year while he was going thru the legal system (Illinois) His mother goes to my church, he actually goes/went to a neighboring upc.

This was his first offense.

During the trial the wife did state that he had spanked the child once beofre to hard and left bruising.

Long and short of it in illinois causing harm to a chiild is a class X felony.

He was sentenced o 11 years in Prison and under Illinois law he will do 85% of that sentence or about 8 years.

He was acrive in his church and in fact had just come in from teaching a home bible study.


My thoughts are that the harsh sentence was over the top for a first time offense.

At his trial the court gallery was full of long hair and long dress's from his church and they played up that he was a good boy, a good Christian.
The "hey, I'm a Christian" did'nt set well the judge, who could have given him the minimum sentence of 6 years.

He's been in State prison 6 hours away from his family now for about two years.

Personally, I wouldn't call hitting with a closed fist spanking. That is punching.

That is a sad situation, but the saddest part is that a 2 year old baby had her leg broken (most likely her femur which is one of the thickest and strongest bones in the body) by the person who was supposed to protect her and keep her safe.

[shag]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

TS, there are several--okay, MANY--practices of punishment and discipline in the Old Testament that we do not participate in. We can take the gist of them as a guideline, but unless you plan on stoning the next fornicator you come across, then save it.

The guts of those verses is that withholding discipline or training will harm a child, and if you do discipline the child, it can save him from destruction. I obviously agree with that. But if you take verse 30 literally, then you are saying it's okay to leave bruises (wounds/blueness), and "stripes." I don't believe that is necessary, fruitful, effective, and it certainly isn't a good WITNESS in a day and age when such acts do not portray gentleness. (a fruit of the spirit)

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I can't see Jesus beating a child, and leaving stripes and bruises. We are living in an age of grace and mercy, and whatever discipline a CHRISTIAN parent offers should be firm, but also reflective of our theology. Children learn about their future relationship with God from their present relationship with their parents--especially their father.

A+ advice Miss B. I hope to always remember that.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

TS, there are several--okay, MANY--practices of punishment and discipline in the Old Testament that we do not participate in. We can take the gist of them as a guideline, but unless you plan on stoning the next fornicator you come across, then save it.

The guts of those verses is that withholding discipline or training will harm a child, and if you do discipline the child, it can save him from destruction. I obviously agree with that. But if you take verse 30 literally, then you are saying it's okay to leave bruises (wounds/blueness), and "stripes." I don't believe that is necessary, fruitful, effective, and it certainly isn't a good WITNESS in a day and age when such acts do not portray gentleness. (a fruit of the spirit)

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I can't see Jesus beating a child, and leaving stripes and bruises. We are living in an age of grace and mercy, and whatever discipline a CHRISTIAN parent offers should be firm, but also reflective of our theology. Children learn about their future relationship with God from their present relationship with their parents--especially their father.

It's clear scripturally the bible supports spanking or beating a child. The word beat has a more strong meaning today, but it's bible to discipline a child with stripes to the back. Of course, we don't want to injure the child. It must be dowe right and not out of anger.

BTW getting chastized is not suppose to be gentle.

[Pragmatist]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

It's clear scripturally the bible supports spanking or beating a child. The word beat has a more strong meaning today, but it's bible to discipline a child with stripes to the back. Of course, we don't want to injure the child. It must be dowe right and not out of anger.

BTW getting chastized is not suppose to be gentle.

It's not clear to me, scripturally. Read the link in post #50. (Thanks, Nahkoe!)

[ILG]

I was taught you were supposed to spank your kid and that Dr. Spock didn't know what he was talking about. I am not opposed to spanking but I sure wish those sermons would have been tempered with teaching good parenting skills. I do have some regrets.

[Truthseeker]

http://www.christian-parents.net/Chi...ce_Officer.htm

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by ILG

I was taught you were supposed to spank your kid and that Dr. Spock didn't know what he was talking about. I am not opposed to spanking but I sure wish those sermons would have been tempered with teaching good parenting skills. I do have some regrets.

I think you make a very important point. Not much teaching on parenting in church.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I think you make a very important point. Not much teaching on parenting in church.

If there were more teaching from the church in regard to good parenting, and not just quick comments from the pulpit of "beat him with a rod--he won't die", I'd be less prone to object to this great support of spanking--even as a "command." (Which I don't believe it is.)

The problem is, I know too many ignorant church people who are abusive, and use scripture to back it up. I'm not picking on church people, but reasonably, the world AND our children expect more of us if we profess to serve Christ. It's enough to make me wish the church would teach against spanking altogether--because usually, it's not "spanking." It's plain old beating.

My husband grew up in a preacher's home and he and his siblings and his mother were severely abused by his father. All in the name of God. I've seen what that kind of twisted combination has done to that family. When you abuse your kids and blame it on a commandment from God, it's a whole new level of mind-bending. Kids don't emerge from that unscathed, and it definitely isn't beneficial in any way. I don't use the word abuse, lightly, either. I'm not referring to butt bruises, even though I would object to that in general.

Maybe if more churches would teach parents how to be Christian parents, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Whatever happened to applying these scriptures?

"Whatsoever you do, do it heartily, as unto the Lord." and, "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."


That makes me take how I treat my children VERY seriously.