Grace Verse Legalism

[freeatlast]

Rhoni, i recall "hearing or ereading" one time that ABI at one time did not teach or cover the book of Romans in their curiculum.

The reason being, they just didn't know how to explain away Pauls message there about grace in light of the legalism that they taught.

Anyone ever hear of this before ? I don't recall where i heard it.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Rhoni, i recall "hearing or ereading" one time that ABI at one time did not teach or cover the book of Romans in their curiculum.

The reason being, they just didn't know how to explain away Pauls message there about grace in light of the legalism that they taught.

Anyone ever hear of this before ? I don't recall where i heard it.

Freeatlast,

I never heard that. I do know that for many years ABI was the only school where you could get good Bible Doctrine teaching.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Freeatlast,

I never heard that. I do know that for many years ABI was the only school where you could get good Bible Doctrine teaching.

Blessings, Rhoni

When I was at ABI (over half a century ago) we considered ourselves to be the best for doctrinal teaching. We considered PBI at Tupelo to be "loose" on doctrine because they were one-steppers. And we considered AC in Tulsa to be radical because they were against Coca Cola and wedding rings.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Sam

When I was at ABI (over half a century ago) we considered ourselves to be the best for doctrinal teaching. We considered PBI at Tupelo to be "loose" on doctrine because they were one-steppers. And we considered AC in Tulsa to be radical because they were against Coca Cola and wedding rings.

Sam,
What did ABI teach about the grace of God?
Blessings, Rhoni

[Pressing-On]

Rhoni,
This is a hard and deep subject in some ways.

One aspect would be: Being in leadership and having to work with people, I find that so many people don't even want to think for themselves. They expect you to tell them what to do. It's as though they "expect" you do drive them along like cattle. Sometimes that can be very exasperating.

I think this brings in a little more legalism than is necessary, but then you sit back and say, "How else can I handle this and make it work?"

It seems in every setting you have your followers and your leaders. I read that no matter how large the congregation you will always, only, have 25% doing the work and doing the giving.

Anyway, I really believe that is where the root of "legalism" starts. Trying to get people to have some gumption and drive. We can say, "Just preach the Word and let the Spirit guide, direct and convict."

That's a good place to start, but you still have your followers. What do you do with those people?

I'm not promoting "legalism" in any way, but I think it's tied up with the non-producers in some ways.

I hope you understand what I am trying to convey.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Rhoni,
This is a hard and deep subject in some ways.

One aspect would be: Being in leadership and having to work with people, I find that so many people don't even want to think for themselves. They expect you to tell them what to do. It's as though they "expect" you do drive them along like cattle. Sometimes that can be very exasperating.

I think this brings in a little more legalism than is necessary, but then you sit back and say, "How else can I handle this and make it work?"

It seems in every setting you have your followers and your leaders. I read that no matter how large the congregation you will always, only, have 25% doing the work and doing the giving.

Anyway, I really believe that is where the root of "legalism" starts. Trying to get people to have some gumption and drive. We can say, "Just preach the Word and let the Spirit guide, direct and convict."

That's a good place to start, but you still have your followers. What do you do with those people?

I'm not promoting "legalism" in any way, but I think it's tied up with the non-producers in some ways.

I hope you understand what I am trying to convey.

Leadership should empower their congregation to pray and seek God, go to the word, and make their own decisions. Just because some people are followers does not give leadership license to make decisions for them. Strive for spiritual maturity. You need to grow the children up not keep them in the crib.

Leadership, much like counselors, have to detach from the client/member's issues to have their own life. It is not my responsibility to carry the burden of my clients, not the Pastor's responsibility to make decisions for the congregation. They are to teach and feed the flock/congregation through example and word.

You'd be surprised if you put the responsibility back on the person by asking them what they think they should do in light of what God has said in his word...can come up with the right answer for themselves.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Leadership should empower their congregation to pray and seek God, go to the word, and make their own decisions. Just because some people are followers does not give leadership license to make decisions for them.

Leadership, much like counselors, have to detach from the client/member's issues to have their own life. It is not my responsibility to carry the burden of my clients, not the Pastor's responsibility to make decisions for the congregation. They are to teach and feed the flock/congregation through example and word.

You'd be surprised if you put the responsibility back on the person by asking them what they think they should do in light of what God has said in his word...can come up with the right answer for themselves.

Blessings, Rhoni

I agree with what you are saying. I am a self-starter and have never had a problem in this area.

Just looking back and having been under both good and bad leadership, I still see a large group of people that don't seem to have a "desire" to try and think for themselves.

I don't know where that comes from. I'm not sure we can totally blame that on a lack of good leadership in all cases.

I personally know a great leader and preacher who has cried and said, "I can't get these people to stop living off of my anointing and seek their own."

This still amazes me. I don't understand it. I'm sure I am approaching your thread from another direction. LOL!

[HADDOCK]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Leadership should empower their congregation to pray and seek God, go to the word, and make their own decisions. Just because some people are followers does not give leadership license to make decisions for them. Strive for spiritual maturity. You need to grow the children up not keep them in the crib.

Well put. If folks are handed a list of do's and don'ts that affect all the areas of their lives, where does a personal relationship with God come in where they seek wisdom, pray about conviction, search for direction?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Sam,
What did ABI teach about the grace of God?
Blessings, Rhoni

You know, now that you've asked, I can't really remember how the subject of "grace" was handled. Bro. Norris was a strong "three-stepper" but he taught the doctrine that is some times called the "light doctrine" and some times called the "holy, righteous and wicked" doctrine. In other words, Acts 2:38 is the message we preach and hold people to but everyone will be judged by how well they walked in the light they had and many who have never heard of Acts 2:28 or didn't understand Acts 2:38, or never knew about Christianity, will receive eternal life at the Great White Throne. He emphasized that in his doctrine class. Also, he was very emphatic about the "Gospels, Acts, and Epistles" divisions of the New Testament. We were told not to look at the Epistles to find out how to be saved. But, I don't remember him ever telling us not to teach or preach from Romans. Another thing he was strong on was that there could never be more apostles than the original twelve plus Paul. He taught that they erred when they chose Matthias and that God did not recognize him as an apostle. He was also strong against the "oil doctrine." He was critical of Amy McPherson, Little David Walker, and A.A. Allen. He posted a certificate or news article (don't remember which) in the school hallway about A.A. Allen being arrested for DUI. I don't, however, ever remember him putting down Bro. Howard Goss as being "weak on the message." Bro. Norris was a strong man and could be caustic and you didn't dare cross him. But I don't remember him being called "the Bear." That term may have come later. Some of us used to say that his initials S.G. stood for Sagging Gut.

I was only there one year and I was a baby Christian.

[Sam]

Oh, about "Grace," from what this foggy brain remembers from over half a century ago, Bro. Norris emphasized that the Church Age went from Pentecost to the Rapture and it was called the Grace Age. He was a dispensationalist when it came to that. He also taught that the 7 churches in Revelation chapters 2 and 3 represented different phases of the Church Age.