Grace Verse Legalism

[Jack Shephard]

Does the Pentecostal church as a whole miss the mark on teaching about grace? I haven't heard it preached much in the chuch except towards the sinners. "God's Grace will cover any sin you have"...but the saints live in fear or losing their salvation. Does that make sense?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Does the Pentecostal church as a whole miss the mark on teaching about grace? I haven't heard it preached much in the chuch except towards the sinners. "God's Grace will cover any sin you have"...but the saints live in fear or losing their salvation. Does that make sense?

I don't believe Bible teaches OSAS, but I've experienced preaching and teaching that goes to the the extreme in the other direction.

The Bible teaches us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

The Bible teaches us that we are not to have the spirit of fear.

The Bible teaches a whole lot about faith.

Somewhere in all of that we have to live a life of Biblical balance.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by 1399

I don't believe Bible teaches OSAS, but I've experienced preaching and teaching that goes to the the extreme in the other direction.

The Bible teaches us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

The Bible teaches us that we are not to have the spirit of fear.

The Bible teaches a whole lot about faith.

Somewhere in all of that we have to live a life of Biblical balance.

Agreed. . . Not sure but I don't think that any one stepper on here really believes OSAS. I don't.

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Does the Pentecostal church as a whole miss the mark on teaching about grace? I haven't heard it preached much in the chuch except towards the sinners. "God's Grace will cover any sin you have"...but the saints live in fear or losing their salvation. Does that make sense?

I attended a ALJC/UPCI church for 22 years and can't remember ONE message preached about the grace of God. Sure it was mentioned here and there, but I must say it appears to have been methodically avoided. I think that the responses here characterize what I think the reasons are as well. I think either pastors just don't have a grip on what God's grace really is and how it applies to the church, or they're afraid of losing control of the people. Actually, I think it's a blend of both, with the reason that they don't seek out an understanding is because they would rather control. Sounds harsh, I know.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by jaamez

I attended a ALJC/UPCI church for 22 years and can't remember ONE message preached about the grace of God. Sure it was mentioned here and there, but I must say it appears to have been methodically avoided. I think that the responses here characterize what I think the reasons are as well. I think either pastors just don't have a grip on what God's grace really is and how it applies to the church, or they're afraid of losing control of the people. Actually, I think it's a blend of both, with the reason that they don't seek out an understanding is because they would rather control. Sounds harsh, I know.

This might sound harsh as well, but here goes. I think that most pastors have a fair grip on what grace is, but only use it when cases come up where they need it. It also could be a thing the keep secret to keep control on saints or it might come down to they are not sure how to balance teaching on Grace with teachings on submission to authority (cause that is the candy stick they preach on).

With real Grace in the picture it can blow a hole in the 3-steppers mode of salvation. But even still I think a great disservice is being done. People live in fear cause they are scared of God striking them down for something when if they knew that Grace really exists (after salvation too) that allows them to repent and be free from it. Grace is one of the greatest messages in the Bible and the least preached in our circles.

**Disclaimer**
My church is pretty balanced when it comes to this, I feel.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

This might sound harsh as well, but here goes. I think that most pastors have a fair grip on what grace is, but only use it when cases come up where they need it. It also could be a thing the keep secret to keep control on saints or it might come down to they are not sure how to balance teaching on Grace with teachings on submission to authority (cause that is the candy stick they preach on).

With real Grace in the picture it can blow a hole in the 3-steppers mode of salvation. But even still I think a great disservice is being done. People live in fear cause they are scared of God striking them down for something when if they knew that Grace really exists (after salvation too) that allows them to repent and be free from it. Grace is one of the greatest messages in the Bible and the least preached in our circles.

**Disclaimer**
My church is pretty balanced when it comes to this, I feel.

Most of what I learned about grace was from an AOG church and Indiana Wesleyan University professors who taught it and gave me books to read on Max Lucado teachings on the subject.

You are right...they lose "control" of their saints...not God's saints

Blessings, Rhoni

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Most of what I learned about grace was from an AOG church and Indiana Wesleyan University professors who taught it and gave me books to read on Max Lucado teachings on the subject.

You are right...they lose "control" of their saints...not God's saints

Blessings, Rhoni

Oh boy! Least to say Max is not one of my favorites in this area. His view on Grace is well..... bad!

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Oh boy! Least to say Max is not one of my favorites in this area. His view on Grace is well..... bad!

Raised the way I was raised - it was a breath of fresh air! I know the doctrinal differences. I also like some of Chuck Colson's work.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Neck]

Originally Posted by jaamez

I attended a ALJC/UPCI church for 22 years and can't remember ONE message preached about the grace of God. Sure it was mentioned here and there, but I must say it appears to have been methodically avoided. I think that the responses here characterize what I think the reasons are as well. I think either pastors just don't have a grip on what God's grace really is and how it applies to the church, or they're afraid of losing control of the people. Actually, I think it's a blend of both, with the reason that they don't seek out an understanding is because they would rather control. Sounds harsh, I know.

If Grace were preached and taught in the UPCI legalistic churches, then when a woman were to cut her hair.

Then repent...They would have to put her back into the choir the moment she repented for cutting her hair.

But because the other local ministers within a district would notice these women with cut hair.

The pastors chose not to preach or teach the Grace of God.

They chose to preach it is a sin.. (What without repentance?)

It is not only about show me your walk with God by how you look and measure to my contentious standards.

It is about how their church looks to the other churches in the district.

It these men were to punish real sin the way they punish the standards list, we would all be looking at a video screen each Sunday.

Because no one would be worthy to preach, sing, take up an offering or teach a class.

It is all about looks period......

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by jaamez

I attended a ALJC/UPCI church for 22 years and can't remember ONE message preached about the grace of God. Sure it was mentioned here and there, but I must say it appears to have been methodically avoided. I think that the responses here characterize what I think the reasons are as well. I think either pastors just don't have a grip on what God's grace really is and how it applies to the church, or they're afraid of losing control of the people. Actually, I think it's a blend of both, with the reason that they don't seek out an understanding is because they would rather control. Sounds harsh, I know.

There is that word again "CONTROL"